Page 8 | To not be ok with race-based segregation?

jbeble · 2023-12-14T09:00:33+00:00

In Boston USA, the Mayor holds parties for 'elected of colour' only. It's been a long road for racism, segregation, discrimination of minorities to be recognised and punished as the crimes that they are. What are we trying to achieve here? AIBU to think that democratically elected representatives of the people should know better than to promote and/or support segregation?

AppleCrispMacchiato · 14/12/2023 12:04

velveteen79 · 14/12/2023 11:38

Really? You can't think of why white minority groups like Irish travellers or Ashkenazi Jews might want their own groups where they feel safe and where they might be able to discuss their own unique culture and concerns? Do you not know about their historical oppression?

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As an Orthodox Jew, please don't exploit us to promote a racist agenda.

The poster was very obviously not referring to ethnic minority groups who happen to have white skin.

Also, a lot of people don't consider Jews to be white, a lot of Jewish people don't consider themselves to be white, and white supremacists certainly don't consider Jews to be white. Whiteness is a cultural (and often legal) construct that is about much more than the shade of your skin.

IncompleteSenten · 14/12/2023 12:06

I'll have to go back and reread because I don't recall any frothing at the mouth or hysterical shrieking.

Such hyperbole is generally used as a silencing technique.

AppleCrispMacchiato · 14/12/2023 12:06

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We're not the ones starting endless "white people are being oppressed" threads then claiming to be bullied and using hysteria like "frothing at the mouth" when people challenge us for being massive racists.

TinkerTiger · 14/12/2023 12:07

PuttingDownRoots · 14/12/2023 09:04

If she held an event for women to discuss the obstacles they overcame, would you object?

I saw it in a similar way... a minority celebrating their achievement.

This is all that it is

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 12:08

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All the comments seem pretty calm.

Which raises the question: why do dyed in the wool reactionaries and people with bigoted views they can’t rationally justify always turn to tone policing and ad hominem when their positions are proven to be ridiculous? The inability to reassess and go ‘I was wrong’ is not normal. It’s like they have some serious issues with which they need help.

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 12:08

I didn't see anyone claiming that "white people are oppressed". There were, however, several posters who insinuated prejudice where there was none.

lkwhjis · 14/12/2023 12:09

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Myfabby · 14/12/2023 12:10

Queucumber · 14/12/2023 12:04

2/10

Must try harder

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so generous.

1/10.

frothing at the mouth. journalism from their masters the daily fail😂

TinkerTiger · 14/12/2023 12:10

Dotcheck · 14/12/2023 09:24

Disbanding the breastfeeding group is awful. Can I ask though, why a group for black and mixed race mums was deemed necessary? I’m genuinely curious.

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Maybe to discuss their birthing experiences and support each other seeing as black women are 5 times more likely to die in childbirth?

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 12:11

vivainsomnia · 14/12/2023 12:02

So you want BAME people to explain to you why you shouldn't be racist? There's not enough information readily accessible for you, you need them to spell it out for you?
I'm always puzzled how those who preach anti racism are often the least tolerant ones in the way they share their views. Aggressive attitude really goes against tolerance.

I consider that learning and knowledge is forever evolving. It's not a case of learning the truth but being open minded and listening to every individual's needs.

I hate putting people in boxes and hate being put in a box. I am not white. Well I am but this is not a word I would ever use to describe myself because it doesn't define me. I am so much more than 'white'. So I don't ever make assumptions on anyone else because of their skin colour. I don't assume they must been persecuted, regularly discriminated, racially abused because they might or might not have. I would listen to their personal experience and empathise.

I suppose that a poor black person living in a predominantly white area is going to experience a very different life than those who have been educated in private school, earning a high income living in a diverse area.

Everywhere in the world, people like to mix with others who share similar experience, that's totally normal. The key issue here is that these get together are referred to as 'parties'. Until we understand the context of these 'parties', who are we to judge if they are appropriate or not?

Where exactly is the aggression in that sentence?

You're whiteness may not define you, but whether you acknowledge it or not, it's a large part of your lived experience.

LadyKenya · 14/12/2023 12:11

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 12:08

I didn't see anyone claiming that "white people are oppressed". There were, however, several posters who insinuated prejudice where there was none.

Quite. Starting with the OP!

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 12:12

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 11:35

@LusaBatoosa I have a friend who was sexually assaulted by a gang because she was white. Perhaps she would be more comfortable speaking in group therapy to women who also experienced this type of offence?

Such a group would have multiple qualifying factors, including gender and being the victim of a crime. I asked about a ‘Whites Only’ group. Excellent reach, but please answer the actual question.

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 12:14

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still here i see...😂

Pluvia · 14/12/2023 12:14

velveteen79 · 14/12/2023 11:57

According to the poll, 48% of people reading this thread who voted agree with the OP. That is approximately 166 out of 347 voters at the time of writing.

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What poll? I don't have a poll come up. So that will be another vote against the proposition.

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 12:14

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 12:08

I didn't see anyone claiming that "white people are oppressed". There were, however, several posters who insinuated prejudice where there was none.

You: ‘If white people did this, they’d be vilified.’

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 12:17

@LusaBatoosa That was not at all a claim that white people are oppressed. I explicitly stated that I do not know why such a group would exist. But other people might, and I would not deny them their experiences and the right to share them with those who share commonalities.

vivainsomnia · 14/12/2023 12:19

Where exactly is the aggression in that sentence?
I find the expression 'spelling out for you' quite rude, but it's the overall tone of the messages and other things said.

You're whiteness may not define you, but whether you acknowledge it or not, it's a large part of your lived experience
Of course, but so are many other things. I don't define myself by any only. It's all my experiences that make me who I am.

I guess I feel more comfortable treating people as individuals with a group of characteristics made of all their experiences than the assumptions I make because of one characteristic.

SerafinasGoose · 14/12/2023 12:21

Zampa · 14/12/2023 09:06

It's not segregation. It's recognising the different experiences of POC.

You only have to look at the threads in the Black Mumsnetters forum to see white people telling others that they're wrong about their lived experience.

I imagine it's nice for a group of Black elected officials to get together to share experiences.

That is this site's shame.

I haven't seen it on the black Mumsnetters' forum precisely because I don't go there to even read, let alone take the liberty of commenting. That isn't my space. It's a tiny corner of a huge site and it's sad to see this disrespected.

It must be very wearying constantly to have your experiences talked over as though others, who don't share them, know better.

spookehtooth · 14/12/2023 12:25

Segregation is when other people force it on you, this is free choice. It's purpose isn't to separate, either, but for a minority to network and support each other.

You should be more concerned about the wealthy and powerful minority, and their parties and business connections. They have a profound impact on our whole society. Some of those groups collaborate to write laws for the rest of us. The recent, highly oppressive, anti protest laws in the UK were written this way via one of their "think tanks". Just as our climate starts to breakdown, and the world looks more politically unstable and violent. What a coincidence, hey?

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 12:25

vivainsomnia · 14/12/2023 12:19

Where exactly is the aggression in that sentence?
I find the expression 'spelling out for you' quite rude, but it's the overall tone of the messages and other things said.

You're whiteness may not define you, but whether you acknowledge it or not, it's a large part of your lived experience
Of course, but so are many other things. I don't define myself by any only. It's all my experiences that make me who I am.

I guess I feel more comfortable treating people as individuals with a group of characteristics made of all their experiences than the assumptions I make because of one characteristic.

If you view being challenged on racism as aggression, then that's on you.
Surely you can understand that being able to ignore race is a very white privilege? It's not that hard to grasp with a basic understanding of history and a bit of listening.

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 12:29

vivainsomnia · 14/12/2023 12:19

Where exactly is the aggression in that sentence?
I find the expression 'spelling out for you' quite rude, but it's the overall tone of the messages and other things said.

You're whiteness may not define you, but whether you acknowledge it or not, it's a large part of your lived experience
Of course, but so are many other things. I don't define myself by any only. It's all my experiences that make me who I am.

I guess I feel more comfortable treating people as individuals with a group of characteristics made of all their experiences than the assumptions I make because of one characteristic.

Intersectionality is not a new concept and I’m fairly certain that everyone who has interacted with you on this thread is a proponent.

LateAF · 14/12/2023 12:34

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 10:43

Just to clarify, I definitely don't think that. I was being very sarcastic.

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Yes sorry I was aware of your sarcasm- was just adding to it!

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 12:34

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 12:17

@LusaBatoosa That was not at all a claim that white people are oppressed. I explicitly stated that I do not know why such a group would exist. But other people might, and I would not deny them their experiences and the right to share them with those who share commonalities.

No, you explicitly stated that you didn’t know why a group that excluded the disabled would exist (which is why you wouldn’t make a similar statement re vilification), thus implying that you understood why a Whites Only group would exist. When pressed on this, you attempted to give me a (wholly specious) example of one that might be needed.

It’s all still up there.

Original poster

jbeble · 14/12/2023 12:34

spookehtooth · 14/12/2023 12:25

Segregation is when other people force it on you, this is free choice. It's purpose isn't to separate, either, but for a minority to network and support each other.

You should be more concerned about the wealthy and powerful minority, and their parties and business connections. They have a profound impact on our whole society. Some of those groups collaborate to write laws for the rest of us. The recent, highly oppressive, anti protest laws in the UK were written this way via one of their "think tanks". Just as our climate starts to breakdown, and the world looks more politically unstable and violent. What a coincidence, hey?

Edited

The above is precisely why I don't think we gain anything by dividing ourselves further.

Segregation is when other people force it on you, this is free choice.
You could argue that segregationist laws were the free choice of those who voted for them, would that make them right?

OP posts:

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 12:35

jbeble · 14/12/2023 12:34

The above is precisely why I don't think we gain anything by dividing ourselves further.

Segregation is when other people force it on you, this is free choice.
You could argue that segregationist laws were the free choice of those who voted for them, would that make them right?

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😂😂😂