Page 6 | To not be ok with race-based segregation?

jbeble · 2023-12-14T09:00:33+00:00

In Boston USA, the Mayor holds parties for 'elected of colour' only. It's been a long road for racism, segregation, discrimination of minorities to be recognised and punished as the crimes that they are. What are we trying to achieve here? AIBU to think that democratically elected representatives of the people should know better than to promote and/or support segregation?

Original poster

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:03

We are ALL socially responsible. Responsible to learn as much as possible about minorities and to EDUCATE others who are not familiar with the minority we belong to.

Yes to this.

OP posts:

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 11:05

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:03

We are ALL socially responsible. Responsible to learn as much as possible about minorities and to EDUCATE others who are not familiar with the minority we belong to.

Yes to this.

😂

Queucumber · 14/12/2023 11:06

I just do not see how we get past division and discrimination

You’re the one stirring up division.

Original poster

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:08

@Myfabby I don't find particularly funny the fact that people are so uncomfortable in the society they are shaping that they wish to perpetuate division.

OP posts:

Vuurhoutjies · 14/12/2023 11:08

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:03

We are ALL socially responsible. Responsible to learn as much as possible about minorities and to EDUCATE others who are not familiar with the minority we belong to.

Yes to this.

haha. except neither your nor the person you're quoting are interested in learning anything. hahaha.

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 11:09

vivainsomnia · 14/12/2023 10:59

It is not the responsibility of an excluded minority to be inclusive
I hate this attitude 'it's not my problem...' should only those who happen to be born in a majority to tak responsibility for everyone else?

Just about everyone will belong in a minority or the other. If someone suffers from a rare disorder, is it everyone else responsibility to understand how it affects them and accuse everyone else if they are not educated?

We are ALL socially responsible. Responsible to learn as much as possible about minorities and to EDUCATE others who are not familiar with the minority we belong to.

So you want BAME people to explain to you why you shouldn't be racist? There's not enough information readily accessible for you, you need them to spell it out for you?
Not being white, is not a "rare disorder". Nobody needs help understanding this in 2023. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself just say that, but don't expect BAME people to do it for you.

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 11:10

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:08

@Myfabby I don't find particularly funny the fact that people are so uncomfortable in the society they are shaping that they wish to perpetuate division.

😂😂😂

RudsyFarmer · 14/12/2023 11:10

Well this gets even more interesting as having looked at the story you are discussing the main spokesperson who is advocating a non-white space has Chinese heritage. If we are using slavery as a reason why black people require their own space then has anyone any opinions of the Chinese and their treatment of Uyghurs?

https://www.saveuighur.org/

Free the Muslims Detained in Chinese Concentration Camps - Save Uyghur

Millions of Muslims are detained at Chinese concentration camps. This is the largest mass detention of people since the Holocaust. Join us & ACT NOW.

https://www.saveuighur.org/

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 11:12

MooseBreath · 14/12/2023 10:56

@LusaBatoosa Oh for fuck's sake, stop trying to turn me into an oppressor! I don't know why a group of neurotypical, able-bodied individuals would want a group free of disabilities. I certainly wouldn't join it if it existed. Would they be vilified for existing? I don't know, because I don't know why it would exist in the first place.

So, in that case, do you know why a ‘Whites Only’ group that excludes minorities would exist in the first place? As you are clearly comfortable making (and standing by) the assertion that they’d be vilified and you apparently only do that if you understand the reason for a group’s existence.

I’m not trying to turn you into anything. You’re the one saying these things.

Original poster

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:13

RudsyFarmer · 14/12/2023 11:10

Well this gets even more interesting as having looked at the story you are discussing the main spokesperson who is advocating a non-white space has Chinese heritage. If we are using slavery as a reason why black people require their own space then has anyone any opinions of the Chinese and their treatment of Uyghurs?

https://www.saveuighur.org/

What early Chinese immigrants to the US were subjected to explains this.

OP posts:

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 11:13

jbeble · 14/12/2023 09:48

To be clear, this is not about people supporting each other and having to get together to have their voice heard, their concerned answered, their cause taken into account.

But the fact is these people are elected, they represent everyone that elected them. Now is the time, and it is their role, to have the hard conversations, not to entrench and divide.

😂😂😂

Vuurhoutjies · 14/12/2023 11:15

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 11:09

So you want BAME people to explain to you why you shouldn't be racist? There's not enough information readily accessible for you, you need them to spell it out for you?
Not being white, is not a "rare disorder". Nobody needs help understanding this in 2023. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself just say that, but don't expect BAME people to do it for you.

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But also, when people do try to explain it, don't dismiss it.

I always think that must be one of the many reasons black and brown people aren't interested in doing this work - it goes into a void. "oh, but that's just your perception. It's not true. Where's the research? No, not THAT research, I don't agree with that research. No, that research is also not true because it was done in America. Well, that research also can't be used because it was done 3 years ago. Things have changed. And white people are discriminated against too. Last week, someone was really rude to me but if someone is rude to you it's because you're black..... "

EXHAUSTING.

RudsyFarmer · 14/12/2023 11:15

jbeble · 14/12/2023 11:13

What early Chinese immigrants to the US were subjected to explains this.

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Of course it does.

Myfabby · 14/12/2023 11:18

RudsyFarmer · 14/12/2023 11:15

Of course it does.

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Whoomp There it is 😂😂

Nonimai · 14/12/2023 11:18

I think there is a vast chasm of difference between American race issues and UK race issues and that it would be difficult for non- Americans or even in this case non-Boston citizens to understand the nuances. When I read this, I was thinking if this was London based, as a Northern person I wouldn’t necessarily understand, whether this was fair, considered or appropriate.

IncompleteSenten · 14/12/2023 11:18

LakeTiticaca · 14/12/2023 10:00

It's all fine and dandy until someone sets up an event for whites only

Then the shit hits the fan........

They did.
A lot.
Which is where the shit really hit the fan.

But yeah, let's ignore all that. Sweep it under the carpet and pretend it's not totally fucked everything up and let's bleat on about how unfair it is that there's something out there not intended for us white people.

Cry me a river.

MagentaRocks · 14/12/2023 11:21

Vuurhoutjies · 14/12/2023 11:15

But also, when people do try to explain it, don't dismiss it.

I always think that must be one of the many reasons black and brown people aren't interested in doing this work - it goes into a void. "oh, but that's just your perception. It's not true. Where's the research? No, not THAT research, I don't agree with that research. No, that research is also not true because it was done in America. Well, that research also can't be used because it was done 3 years ago. Things have changed. And white people are discriminated against too. Last week, someone was really rude to me but if someone is rude to you it's because you're black..... "

EXHAUSTING.

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Absolutely. Yes, someone might be rude to all people and it isn’t just because someone is black, but if someone is rude to me, as a white person I know it is just because of them and how they are. Someone who is black has most definitely experienced people being rude and offensive to them because they are black time and time again. It’s not really a stretch to understand why that would become exhausting and why they would think that once again the colour of their skin is the reason.

LusaBatoosa · 14/12/2023 11:23

Smellslikesummer · 14/12/2023 10:57

It’s a playgroup though not a group for pregnancy support. And it is based on the race of the babies, not the mums.
So not about the pregnancies but caring for babies. How is breastfeeding / waking up at night / changing nappies / feeling lonely on mat leave different based on the race of your baby?

A PP said the breastfeeding support was absent for black mums, which would be a fair point if white mums were getting support but they are not really getting any either.

As a young mum the very last thing that I would notice when talking to another new mum would have been the colour of her skin. And all the topics shared were universal (tiredness, worry about baby’s weight gain, breast vs bottle, …)

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So, you truly cannot comprehend how women who have gone through a harrowing maternity in which they are four times more likely to die than you and are still dealing with an institutionally racist healthcare system might have different and additional issues that they might want to discuss amongst themselves? Play groups are support networks, they’re how you meet local mums.

The fact that race would be ‘the last thing on your mind’ is a privilege. That’s white privilege. Black mothers do not have that privilege.

And, no. Black women do not have the same breastfeeding experiences as white women. Again, this has been researched.

https://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/black-breastfeeding-week-facing-up-to-power-and-privilege/#:~:text=Black%20mothers%20are%20also%20less,for%20supporting%20their%20breastfeeding%20journeys.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6860569/

https://www.therealbirthcompanyltd.com/2022/08/31/why-do-we-need-a-black-breastfeeding-week/

Black Breastfeeding Week: Facing up to power and privilege - The Breastfeeding Network

A statement from our CEO, Catherine Hine and Director Dr. Ernestine Gheyoh Ndzi on facing up to power and privilege published during Black Breastfeeding Week 2023.

https://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/black-breastfeeding-week-facing-up-to-power-and-privilege#:~:text=Black%20mothers%20are%20also%20less,for%20supporting%20their%20breastfeeding%20journeys.

Dotcheck · 14/12/2023 11:25

UnderHisEyeOverMyDeadBody · 14/12/2023 09:31

@Dotcheck You really can’t think why black/mixed race mothers may need a group solely for themselves?
Really?

Edited

No need. I asked a genuine question with the intention of understanding other people’s experiences.

Thank you @CandyFluff99 . This was something I was aware of, but hadn’t connected the dots to extend to mother and baby groups. I blame my head cold.
I do think it’s important for women to have a safe space to all about birthing experiences.

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 11:28

Dotcheck · 14/12/2023 11:25

No need. I asked a genuine question with the intention of understanding other people’s experiences.

Thank you @CandyFluff99 . This was something I was aware of, but hadn’t connected the dots to extend to mother and baby groups. I blame my head cold.
I do think it’s important for women to have a safe space to all about birthing experiences.

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Safe spaces for all birthing experiences = literally every other mother/baby/breastfeeding group.

Isitreallythough · 14/12/2023 11:28

I’m sure that
a. attendees also go to plenty of mixed events
b. these events also serve an important purpose for people likely to have dealt with similar challenges

LondonLass91 · 14/12/2023 11:30

PuttingDownRoots · 14/12/2023 09:04

If she held an event for women to discuss the obstacles they overcame, would you object?

I saw it in a similar way... a minority celebrating their achievement.

Except we all know that there could never be a women's only event without a token transwoman there, lest any males get upset. Anyway other than that, fair point.

MsMarch · 14/12/2023 11:31

@Smellslikesummer I remember watching an episode of Greys Anatomy once in which Bailey and Warren were discussing the need to have "the talk" with their son. The "talk" being about how to act if pulled over by the police etc etc.

Yes, that might be a more US centric situation but it really resonated with me. The reality is that there are all kinds of things that black people (and other races too) have to think about and be proactive about that just do not cross my mind as a white person.

DS has a friend who is mixed race. He is on the SEN register at school - we know that because DS is as well and they've been sent to activities together - but I don't know why. I do know that he is socially and physically slightly different to the other children. Doesn't affect his ability to hang out and he's a lovely kid who is very chatty (vs the bulk of DS' monosyllabic buddies) so we love having him around. A few weeks ago, him and DS had been at the park and were late getting back. It was starting to get dark. He said he'd walk home - quite far from our house but normally okay. But we gave him a lift, partly because I think DH and I both realised that the risks for him being out late were higher because of both the colour of his skin and his ND. We probably would also have given a white NT kid a lift, but I wouldn't have been as nervous of what could happen to him if we didn't.

LondonLass91 · 14/12/2023 11:32

Oliotya · 14/12/2023 11:09

So you want BAME people to explain to you why you shouldn't be racist? There's not enough information readily accessible for you, you need them to spell it out for you?
Not being white, is not a "rare disorder". Nobody needs help understanding this in 2023. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself just say that, but don't expect BAME people to do it for you.

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No one says BAME anymore. Not even the BBC..

colourblinded · 14/12/2023 11:34

Ktime · 14/12/2023 09:57

the Mayor holds parties for 'elected of colour' only.

Why are you lying and spinning this in to multiple parties OP?

It’s one get together for the 6 BAME people, out of 13 people.

Then there are several parties planned:

'There are multiple ways that we celebrate with everyone. There are several parties where all the entire city council and all of our elected colleagues have been invited to.'

Edited

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The Mayor herself said this has been going on for years. This issue was only revealed because the invite was mistakenly sent to the whole council this year.

Is the Mayor happy to use taxpayers' money to fund a 'white electeds only' party? No, and nor should she.

As Bill Maher said recently, it used only to be racists who saw the colour of someone's skin as their primary feature, now it seems to be the politically correct way to view people.