23 and 18?

My experience is that the majority of young people would share your DDs perspective. I have a DS around your sons age and their friendship group is very judgemental about men dating teen women. On the other side, my friends 18 year old DD and her circle are very scathing about the 'old guys' (20s!) who hang around the bars where the under 20s go.
That said, your DS doesn't sound as though he has the typical experience of a man his age if its his first GF, and perhaps she is particularly mature given she is working. They also met 'naturally' as oppose to him deliberately seeking out a teen to date, which is far less of a red flag.

I do think young adults today are protected from the world far more and for far longer than my generation ( I'm 50)
When I was a,teen in the 90,s it wasn't that uncommon for people to go straight into the world of work when they left school at 16 ,not everyone obviously but many did
Also all.this the brain isn't fully developed until 25 ( something I only ever read on mumsnet) really infantalises young adults ,I was a fully qualified nurse at 22.

I can't see the problem either, they MN hysteria is hilarious though there seems to have been an infantilising of young people, the idea that 25 is not an adult is mad, yes I know there is 'research' to back the idea, show me the figures and I'll prove whatever you want is how statistics work.

Oh and as for whether you should say something, I wouldn't until you've seen them together. If all appears well and they seem happy and interacting as equals, all good. If he seems to be dominating her, or she seems very immature or in thrall to him, then in your shoes I would. There's a balance between minding your own business as a mother, and looking out for the interests of very young women as a woman, and if I thought my son was part of an unhealthy relationship dynamic that might be harmful to an 18 year old, then I'd be speaking up.

My dd was 19 and her boyfriend 23 when they got together (21/25 now). They are probably very similar on a maturity level whereas she was always frustrated about how juvenile some boys her age are. It’s never been a concern for me.

I think things have changed a lot in more recent years & amongst young people that would now be considered to be ( generally) a big gap.

niece is 18, but still at school, and her seeing a working 24yo would be considered ' not right' but I think it changes things when they're both working.

He's your son, you know he's not a player, so long as he treats her well I wouldn't say anything. A learning opportunity for your daughter(s) that life is not black & white and do they really think that badly of their brother?!?!

Spot on, all points,

Those saying they are on a level at work - no. He’s what sounds like a graduate who’s come in to a job. She is an apprentice, she’ll be at the very least junior to him, more likely regarded as somewhere between a student and work experience/intern.

I disagree with all the posters who are totally chilled out about this, but I'm not quite at the "that's disgusting" phase that your DDs are.

I think the fact that they're both working at the same place makes it less weird. Although there could definitely be power imbalances, even at this age, that would make me a bit concerned.

I might say something casually to him, but I wouldn't be haranguing him about inappropriate relationships either.

I’m this age and yes I’d not come across the ‘25’ thing until mumsnet.
I owned a house and was a trainee solicitor doing court bail applications and mental health tribunal advocacy at 22.
My 17 yr old and her friends were talking and it made me realise what a change there has been. They were outraged I didn’t see 17.5 and just 20 as an issue.
As long as they are mindful re work situation it’s not an issue. Many people used to meet their spouse at work.

I think it's fine. They are on a level at work- they both are trainees. It doesn't matter that one has a degree and one A levels - it makes no difference. He isn't a manager in his 30s going for a girl of 16. It isn't creepy.

When I was 19 I had a fling with a 26 year old and then when I was 21 I had a fling with a 28 year old. Ultimately I married someone 9 years older than me. I also went out with guys close in age and younger but wasn't ever very keen on the ones who were younger than I was. (edited to say we were all students, so not at different life stages).

It is interesting that things have changed, as girls always wanted older boyfriends when I was a teen. Ideally you went out with someone at least two years older and I knew of 14 year olds going out with 18 year olds (which I think would be more problematic than this scenario due to the age of consent).

This brain-still-developing-till-25 thing is a very badly reported bit of research that has been latched onto and presented as far more of a concrete fact than it in fact is:
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html

Also, our brains are highly plastic and develop by doing. If you don't let people start living as adults from their mid/late teens then their brains won't develop the appropriate adult skills.

I agree.

He's never had a girlfriend and has now found somebody who he likes and who like him back. I would be happy for him if it was my Brother and would want to get to know her. The age gap is nothing to worry about.

The daughters aren't nasty, unless anyone has missed it they are 18 and 20 themselves. So either they are a) thinking how they would feel at dating someone 5 years older or b) not mature enough to understand how totally fine it is, depending on your perspective.

Bloody typical ingrained misogyny to assume that a 23 year old man needs all the breaks cutting for him but an actual 18 year old girl worrying about another 18 year old girl being taken advantage of is "nasty".

I also wouldn’t assume he’s in a more senior position at work.
I can easily imagine a scenario where the solicitors degree apprentices and the trainees with a law degree/degree and conversion will all be doing the same work. As long as he’s not working directly with her then I don’t see an issue if he’s in litigation for example dating another trainee in conveyancing. Or whatever the equivalent is for his field of work.

Some people really hate age gap relationships between adults and seem to take them as a personal offense. Someone I knew called my DH a paedo because there's a 15 year age gap between us.... I am 38 years old lmao!!!
There will always be some busybody who thinks their ideas about what is correct should apply to everyone else's relationships.
I'd tell your daughters that it's perfectly reasonable to have their own boundaries regarding what they themselves would want a relationship to look like. But to go around accusing the elder of 2 adults in a relationship a 'paedo' is not only disgusting and deeply rude.. but diminishes what people actually effected by paedophiles go through.
It might be more legitimate to comment on the potential power difference between them as something to keep an eye on... but at the end of the day this age gap is so small it's not really a red flag unless the girl is saying things to make you believe it is abusive in any way. If she seems happy and the relationship seems healthy then everyone needs to wind their necks in. We don't empower young adult women by writing their narratives for them and dictating to them who they should date. We empower them by listening to them and helping them if they do say they are being exploited or abused, or if there is any sign of that in what they are saying.
And yes everyone develops at a different rate. I left home, was working full time and living with my boyfriend at 16. I do not expect that will be the case for my daughters... but I do think it's ludicrous to treat an 18 year old as some kind of young child without agency. Yes they can be more nieve than older women so yes it's important to look out for exploitation and talk to them about what that might look like... but to act like they don't know what they want at all or couldn't really judge wether they are happy in a relationship so should have their choices limited.. is to me totally ridiculous.

When I had just turned 18, I dated a 21 year old and looking back even that was way too big of an age gap. But I think it was more I was a very young (inexperienced) 18 year old and he had already had a couple of serious girlfriends. The power balance was very off and I think he should have known better. I was just about to start Uni and he had just finished it and started a job. I’m so glad the relationship never went anywhere, there was a huge chunk of life I still needed to experience! So yeah, I’m with your daughters on this one!

The idea that he's also some kind of trainee has been made up by other posters on the thread. He could be I suppose, but plenty of 23 nearly 24 year olds are being hired into non traineeship posts (e.g. consultants), I think of all the people I knew at uni only future lawyers or accountants were trainees at that age, people in other kinds of work were - well, employees. Some of them in their second job by that age, I was definitely in my second job months before I turned 24.

I agree. It's interesting how quick people are to criticise the daughters for expressing concern about the girl. I think they have the right to feel uncomfortable about it personally.

There are lots of things that would have been considered "totally normal" once that would no longer be considered acceptable today. I don't see why we should dismiss the fact that lots of younger women appear to find a 5 year age gap at that age a bit uncomfortable, just because it was apparently the norm back in the day.

Ultimately, it is nobody else's business what two consenting adults choose to do, but I would be concerned if I was the girl's mother. I would also be concerned if I was the boy's mum, as I would be wondering why he couldn't find a girlfriend nearer his own age and life stage, and concerned that he might be taking advantage of her.

I would add, I have nothing against age gaps in relationships more generally. My own DH is nearly 7 years older than me.

I just think the gap is quite big between a just-turned 18yo and an almost 24yo. In a few years' time, it probably wouldn't matter but it's too unbalanced at those ages.

@Bristolnewcomer the DD's don't sound like that they like their Brother calling him creepy. To be honest none of us know what any of them are like. The word misogyny is thrown about on here a lot though if you look at it from the man's point of view. The girlfriend obviously doesn't find him creepy.

Surely it depends on the 18 year old ?
In mumsnet world all.18 year olds are either doing their A levels in a sixth form in a school.or in their first year of University
In the real.World 18 year olds will e doing a variety of things including working ,some might be living fully independent lives because they are after all.an adult .

Of course the girl is entitled to make her own decisions. But equally, the OP's dds are entitled to feel uncomfortable about the idea of an 18yo going out with a 23yo. "Creepy" is quite a value-laden term, and perhaps they could have found a more tactful way of expressing it, but they are entitled to feel what they feel and it doesn't make them nasty!

I don't really understand why everyone thinks it's different because she is working. She's still 18!

And it depends on the 18yo to the extent that it is their decision, as an adult, to be with whoever they choose. As a parent, though, I would be concerned for any 18yo girl in that situation. My own 18yo dd is more mature than most, but she she I would both consider the age gap too great at that age.

Do people not think it's a bit uncomfortable that an almost 24yo who has never had a girlfriend - probably fairly unusual in and of itself - is now seeking out a much younger girl with whom to play catch up? Sorry, but I wouldn't like it...