Trans Widows, the Liberal Democrats and the Spousal "Veto"

[TinselAngel]

First of all I have @anlaf to thank for drawing my attention to this originally.

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more.

Please contact the Liberal Democrats (particulary if you have a Liberal Democrat MP) and any prominent feminists you know to get people talking about this. It is a completely unjustified assault on one of the few rights that trans widows have. Any attack on Womens Rights is an attack on all women.

WPUK statement on this.

womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/21/spousal-consent-and-the-liberal-democrats/

It would be Layla Moran, wouldn’t it? It’s hard to believe just how little she cares about women.

Ffs. I am fast running out of words. Tinsel you are a star. Resilient. We have your back.

JFC - what is the problem with giving a spouse an honourable out?

LibDems - misogynist to the core.

Will fire off an email to our local party.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more.

What is wrong with giving someone an honourable exit? It isn't the life they signed up for. No one should be locked into an abusive situation while their spouse spends their family cash on living their own dream, turning the world upside down.

Shame that WPUK use the word veto.

Shame that WPUK use the word veto.

In inverted commas. They need to mention it to clarify they're talking about the same thing.

Layla Moran really is an utter melt. So woke her brains have pooled in the floor.

It's a shame because the libdems are good on Brexit. But woeful on women's rights.

JFC - what is the problem with giving a spouse an honourable out?

Only total capitulation will suffice.

No inverted commas around 'Therefore a veto must always be an option for a non-transitioning spouse' which appears in italics in the WPUK statement. It seems to be from their submission to the GRA consultation, so some time ago now - maybe they weren't questioning it being a veto at that stage

If there had been a large number of women suddenly becoming legally male, the very idea that a man should be forced to stay in a same sex marriage he never agreed to would never even have been contemplated.

But forced marriage is being contemplated, which tells you everything about who is doing it to whom.

Well as they're the only feminist group that have spoken out against this so far, it would be churlish of me to nit pick.

By TRA logic. If my dh transitions it is because he has, in actual fact, always been a woman. I am straight and therefore married a woman by mistake, this not being revealed to me at the time. Therefore my marriage should be dissolved so she (my dh) can go off and be with a woman, as befits his lesbian status.

It seems blindingly obvious that when a heterosexual marriage turns out to have been built on lies then the innocent and deceived partner should have the right to get the marriage annulled, without having to go through the added stress and expense of divorce proceedings.

Especially when the transitioning partner claims to have been "a woman" all along, since that indicates that their marriage vows and the fathering of their children have all taken place under false pretences.

The idea that female politicians are wanting to change the law so that it forces wives to become same sex partners against their will is horrific. And I say that as an elderly lesbian.

Imagine the it. First you find out that the manly man you married, had children with, and thought you'd be with forever, has fallen out of love with you, and become sexually obsessed with the thought of himself as a woman. You and the children have paled into insignificance in comparison to his new, all encompassing love affair with herself.

Then transgenderism insists that you must accept that you are now a lesbian, since he has become a woman. You have to explain to your children that they are now expected to hide their true feelings of loss and sadness, or risk being bullied for transphobia when all this becomes public knowledge amongst their peers.

It's a hideous nightmare, but at least as things stand now you have the right to say Fuck No! I didn't sign up for this! You have the right to have the betrayed marriage annulled and can go your separate ways, trying to patch up your lives as best you can.

This proposed new law would add an extra circle of hell, where you have to navigate your way through the divorce courts before you can start putting your life and the lives of your children back together.

Any women in favour of trapping innocent wives and children in such a nightmare scenario need to really think about what they are doing, and be deeply ashamed of themselves.

It’s fucking horrible

The guy you married is now saying he is a woman and you are trapped with that guy

That Layla Moran is damaging women and children with her pandering to men

Tinsel 🍷

Thank you @stealthsquirrelnutkin - I didn't really understand the ramifications properly.

God @TinselAngel - I don't know how you cope with continuously being shat on by other women. It makes me feel sick and furious.

If there had been a large number of women suddenly becoming legally male, the very idea that a man should be forced to stay in a same sex marriage he never agreed to would never even have been contemplated.

Yes. Imagine telling Gary that when Katie becomes Kevin and cuts her breasts off, goes bald and grows a mustache, he must still do the right thing and stay by her side. Never mind keep having relations with her. After all, s/he's still the same person, right?

I don't know how you cope with continuously being shat on by other women. It makes me feel sick and furious.

As somebody who tries to practice solidarity and sisterhood, I find it incomprehensible.

Layla Moran makes me very, very angry. She thinks that she can throw other women and children under the bus because she thinks she's immune by virtue of her position.

This proposal is basically enabling coercive control and abuse.

What's the problem with getting an annulment? What sicko wants to make someone stay married to them when they've been deceived about the basis of the marriage and want out?

Will contact the Lib Dems locally tomorrow to explain this is why I won't be voting for them.

iirc this was also in the Scottish consultation. It's rage-inducing. It's as though their lack of respect for women knows no bounds.

this is disgrace!
How likely is this law to pass?
when house of lords will vote?

If your partner transitions is it an automatic reason for divorce ie accepted by a judge for instant divorce? Also is it a reason for an auto annulment or dissolution for women whose religion will not 'allow' a divorce?

It looks like a divorce veto to me

If your identity is decided by you alone and doesn’t rely on outward appearances or other’s opinions, why should a woman married to a man who transitions not define herself as heterosexual? It seems to go against the whole ethos of “I am whatever I say I am.” Again.

If your partner transitions is it an automatic reason for divorce ie accepted by a judge for instant divorce? Also is it a reason for an auto annulment or dissolution for women whose religion will not 'allow' a divorce?

There's no such thing as an instant divorce in the UK. You can divorce on the grounds of "unreasonable behaviour", but that relies on your spouse consenting to the divorce.

Yes. The current system where you can obtain annulment/ dissolution is better for women who can't divorce for religious reasons.