Trans Widows, the Liberal Democrats and the Spousal "Veto"

[TinselAngel]

First of all I have @anlaf to thank for drawing my attention to this originally.

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more.

Please contact the Liberal Democrats (particulary if you have a Liberal Democrat MP) and any prominent feminists you know to get people talking about this. It is a completely unjustified assault on one of the few rights that trans widows have. Any attack on Womens Rights is an attack on all women.

I have emailed this to my local Lib Dems.

Please could I have it? I'm an LD member currently but feeling a bit politically homeless.

Done @NeurotrashWarrior @Newuser123123

Update: I sent my own template email to my local Lib Dems and got a very sympathetic response, so it's definitely worth doing.

" If my dh transitions it is because he has, in actual fact, always been a woman. I am straight and therefore married a woman by mistake, this not being revealed to me at the time."

Never mind grounds for divorce, assuming the marriage was consummated, is this not a criminal offense? Several lesbians (Gemma Barker, Justine McNally, Jennifer Saunders, Gayle Newland) have been convicted for deceiving their partners and pretending that they were men.

Presumably this is the same situation, where a woman has been tricked into a lesbian relationship by someone who pretended to be a man?

I don't know anything about the cases you mention, but off the top of my head I'd have thought it was different.

Assuming the Lesbians you mention pretended to be men before same sex marriage came in, their marriage wouldn't have been legal.

With regards to gender transition- you're legally the sex you were born as until you get a GRC- what ever is in your head, so no legal deception has taken place if you marry.

Trigger warning for discussion of rape defences.

Gayle Newland was found guilty on three counts of sexual assault by penetration.

Newland's defence was that she and her girlfriend were closeted lesbians and that the "male persona" was part of a consensual relationship.

At a time when the "I tripped and fell my Lord" and the "this woman I didn't know consented to be dragged down an alley for rough sex" were successful defenses against rape I am always that this woman was found guilty.

Details of the case here.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

I dont believe TWAW, but I dont see why a partner should be able to veto this. Surely they can leave or divorce for unreasonable behaviour?

It's not always easy to get a divorce and the process can take years.

www.theguardian.com/law/2018/sep/07/uk-government-launch-consultation-no-fault-divorces

However, as there seems to be cross party agreement on the need for faster, easier divorces, it's not clear why this proposal from the Lib Dems is necessary.

Baroness Barker's Bill has been published. It replaces a trans widows right to exit a marriage before it becomes a same sex marriage against her will with the right to be "informed" that her husband has made an application for a Gender Recognition Certificate.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2019-2020/0051/20051.pdf

I'm so disgusted I'm not sure what to say.

FFS. Appalling! How fucking dare they.

Please may I have a copy of the template email? I’ll send to local (very sensible usually) LDs.

Thanks Tinsel for your tireless work on this, and a huge thank you to you and the other trans widows for being courageous enough to share your stories and enlighten me. Women first, always

Thanks Badger. Sent. Let me know if it doesn't arrive x

It's just very depressing the extent to which prominent Lib Dem trans activists have got women in the party shilling for them.

For those who don't have time to read the link, all a husband will have to do when he applies for a gender recognition certificate is sign a declaration saying he's told his wife. No proof is required that he has.

Given how men in this situation lie to their wives throughout the marriage (see the Trans Widows threads!), trusting their honesty at this point is hugely misguided.

To me this underlines again that for the TRA's who are driving this, only total capitulation from wives will suffice. The brave and stunning journey must not be impeded.

Imagine how powerless you would feel as a wife in that situation?

And I reiterate, the law as it stands is not a veto on transition, but it does give a woman control over whether she is in a legally same sex marriage or not.

The proposals say that the GRC panel will then notify the wife that the application has been made but she doesn't appear to get any say in it.

I despair. And wouldn't bother contacting the LibDems; I did and had no reply.
They really don't give a damn; chasing the approval of lobby groups is their priority.

Don't be put off contacting the Lib Dems! At least one local party has responded. Given we're in the run up to a general election, now is the ideal time.

If we don't contact them they'll only hear one side of the story.

Have shared on Spinster for maximum visibility, Tinsel.

Oh that is awful! I thought someone was listening.

It is nice of them to let the wife know

And for Tinsel.

You are a and I know that your work will bring a lot of hope to many women out there.

Tinsel you are a star. Thank you for the work that you do.

At the moment it seems to me the Lib Dems are EXTREMELY KEEN to stop women and girls from having the right to consent to a range of dodgy unpleasant situations with men.

I am going to write to the local female lib dem candidate and make it clear that my vote is contingent upon her upholding the right to single sex spaces for women and girls (happy to campaign for third trans spaces alongside her if she wishes) and the right for women in a marriage with a man who wishes to transition to retain the right to exit their marriage without having to jump through the usual hoops.

The transwidows thread shows clearly that many transitioning men are abusive to women and children and the Lib Dem proposal is another way they can abuse and trap those women and children in an abusive situation against their will.

It is frankly, bat shit crazy that this is being considered at all - the original parliamentary debate is very reasoned. A spouse cannot, never could, never would be able to prevent transition but they should not be trapped in a marriage which has fundamentally changed against their will.

What next: Lib Dems want to legalise rape in marriage? That surely is the next step.

Bloody hell. A right 'to be informed' - and that right isn't even going to be enforced?

This can't go through until divorce is quicker and easier - as far as changing a marital contract goes, getting yourself legally declared as the opposite sex is a pretty big breach, women need to be given the chance to leave first.

The bloody irony of the LibDems producing this pile of pony at the same time Jo Swinson is complaining about being sexistly left out of the televised debates.

It's really fucking annoying when you don't get listened to and your legitimate position is ignored, innit, Jo?

I just did some research online on annulment. Interesting that you must go to court and a court fee costs £550. And your ex can contest the annulment that can actually cost a lot as you would have to get legal representation.

I assumed that an annulment would be cheaper but it seems not.

Anyway of course an automatic annulment is preferable for any woman who wants out of the marriage with a transwoman. But financially it may not be that much cheaper.

Really sorry to be defeatist Tinsel... Having a bad day of feeling it's all bad news on FWR.
Emailing, questioning, flagging this up on the doorstep... of course, it's got to be done. And your work on this is so helpful.

Don't worry we're all allowed a slump

Hi there, do you still have the email template. I'd be really interested in sending this to our local LD candidate, who, I am fairly sure, has never thought about this in his life.