Trans Widows, the Liberal Democrats and the Spousal "Veto"

[TinselAngel]

First of all I have @anlaf to thank for drawing my attention to this originally.

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more.

Please contact the Liberal Democrats (particulary if you have a Liberal Democrat MP) and any prominent feminists you know to get people talking about this. It is a completely unjustified assault on one of the few rights that trans widows have. Any attack on Womens Rights is an attack on all women.

Sent. unwravellingagain

Thanks for your support, all

The dissolution of parliament means that Baroness Barker's Bill automatically falls, however given the motion passed at their party conference there's no doubt that it remains Lib Dem party policy to remove the Spousal Exit Clause from the GRA, so the fight is not over.

If your local Lib Dems come canvassing at your door, please do talk to them about this, I'm prepared to bet most of them have no idea.

Thanks - it is confusing with all these things being dropped (also petitions get dropped) for general elections/random closing of parliament, then not etc. We live in 'interesting times'

I am putting together a question for my Libdem candidate who is a business woman and very concerned about the running down of the local "STD clinic" so am not sure where she will fall.

I absolutely will if they come knocking. I got no response to my email sent.

I sent the LibDem canvasser packing last time on the basis of their trans policy and will be happy to do so again. Fairly sure I'm on a "don't bother knocking" list though, and I haven't had a reply to my email. Quelle surprise.

Keep going, Tinsel. You are an inspiration.

Tinsel could I ask you to send me your template, please? We have a new LD candidate, as our previous one recently won the Brecon and Radnor by-election. He was previously a Tory, so may not be quite so woke.

Sent NotAtMyAge x

Well, it strikes me that such a law, if passed, would be vulnerable to challenge on the grounds that it infringed the Article 8 ECHR rights of the non-transitioning spouse, and probably a couple more besides. It is not compatible with the right to express one’s heterosexuality for starters.
Also, this is completely against the direction of travel in all other areas, including the calls to change the law so one spouse can prevent divorce in the absence of objectively unreasonable behaviour.

That's interesting HighNetGirth. I've suspected there would be legal issues but other than a working knowledge of divorce law, I'm not an expert.

Sorry, last sentence should have said “cannot prevent divorce in the absence of objectively unreasonable behaviour”.

After input from Tinsel on the Break it down for me GE edition thread, I copied the following to my Lib Dem candidate, who I had been questioning about his views on trans women in women's prisons. Got a very positive response!

( He says, I'm with you there!)

Wow, got a response back from the candidate. I posted this, taken from Tinsel's post,

Also wondered what you thought about this:

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more

Sounds awful, do you support this?

Got a response saying, " I'm with you there!"

Thanks jam

I also got a very positive response from my local Lib Dem PPC.

And a friend of mine has just got another positive response from her local candidate

Party activists on the ground don't seem to have drunk the kool aid to quite the extent I thought they would have.

@TinselAngel could I have a copy of your template please? I'm sending various candidates a list of questions I'd like answered.
Thanks.

Sent Catmaiden

Thank you

That's good news Tinsel about the individual candidates having rather less of an extreme outlook. I did follow advice that I'd seen on various MN threads of starting the discussion gently, and on a topic that was very black and white ( I started with women's prisons) we found agreement there to an extent.

The veto, as you do eloquently outlined it was so clearly unfair that I sent him that too. I need to think about what to ask about next...

Never would have thought of emailing a candidate if it weren't for Mumsnet!

@tinselangel
I've posted it elsewhere but I've spoken with the membership team to ask if I can still be a member with my views, they seemed very surprised that I'd even ask and were in agreement on me with everything! I'm guessing that's not party policy though! They said they'll take it further and get back to me

Tinsel, a copy of your draft for me if that would be ok? Lib Dem’s don’t have a cats chance where I live but I want to email he candidate anyway to raise awareness on the ground.
Would be grateful

Sent @theunknownknown, thanks.

I dont know if anyone spotted this rather gushing article in the normally GC Daily Mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7682521/My-husband-woman-Heres-didnt-leave.html

I think the interviewees usefully make the point that what works for one wife would not work for others, and that it is something that children naturally struggle with. The comments are supportive as well, though with several women saying they personally could not handle their partner having a sex change. The problem with the LibDem proposal is that it is denying women a choice.

Well I sent a slightly amended draft, along with a question about what he thought about the party's advice that GC women shouldn't vote for them. haven't heard a thing back. And this is someone I know personally, who had kids at the same school in the past. I think I may have surprised him.

These articles implying there is a moral virtue in staying, really get in my saggy tits. Poor woman, Needmoresleep

Tinsel, I understand why. It is one of a couple of atypical articles this week from the DM. (I wonder if they want to avoid claims that they only cover GC angles, in case self-ID blows up as an election issue, and they become the nasty paper supporting the nasty party.) It has an odd vomit inducing "brave and stunning" tone.

It is worth noting that it is a late marriage without children together. And useful that they are clear that not every wife believes they could accept the situation, which is backed up by the comments. In short consenting couples do what consenting couples want. The problem surely with Layla Moran's proposals is that they take away consent from the wife and force her into a lesbian marriage.

Given he heads the Beaumont Society the brave and stunningness is not surprising. What is surprising is that he/they seem to acknowledge problems that the LibDems don't seem able to spot.

Yes, the Beaumont Society have been gaslighting partners for a generation

This article is a fairly typical one of how coverage of trans widows usually goes. I think the Daily Mail's traditional family values type narrative will continue even if they print the odd GC article.

People like reading stories with a happy ending. It's only women who have paid attention to trans widow's stories that know that this outcome isn't usually the happy ending that the newspapers make out.