Trans Widows, the Liberal Democrats and the Spousal "Veto"

[TinselAngel]

First of all I have @anlaf to thank for drawing my attention to this originally.

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more.

Please contact the Liberal Democrats (particulary if you have a Liberal Democrat MP) and any prominent feminists you know to get people talking about this. It is a completely unjustified assault on one of the few rights that trans widows have. Any attack on Womens Rights is an attack on all women.

Well I've had an answer from our Lib Dem candidate, and it's not straight party line which is good to know:

"Thanks for getting in touch on this. This is not an issue I have had to deal with before, so I am reading both sides of the argument before forming a firm view on your specific question. If you had any articles about it that would help please let me know.
I am very much in favour of women’s rights as well as LGBT rights and wish to form an informed view on this subject."

Any good articles other than the recent Jenni Russell one in the Times that I should point him at?

The Simon fanshawe one is excellent

Great you've got a response artisan. There's loads of propaganda pieces written by TRA's and few articles in support.

See Fair Play for Women's GRA consultation guidance question 7

fairplayforwomen.com/full_guide/#q7

Women's place

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/womansplaceuk.org/2019/09/21/spousal-consent-and-the-liberal-democrats/amp/

Oooh! WPUK said we're "vigorous" 😍

https://womansplaceuk.org/2019/11/14/not-so-liberal-not-so-democratic-the-liberal-democrats-and-women/amp/?twitterr_impression=true

@TinselAngel, where? I've looked, and looked :(

@ in relation to marriage/civil partnership, the Liberal Democrats have also announcedd_ that they support the removal of spousal consent (“spousal veto”) which is currently required when one person in a marriage wishes to transition to a different “legal sex” and remain married. This provision means the spouse must give their consent for their marriage to continue before gender recognition is awarded.
Liz Barker subsequently tabled a private members’ billl_ to bring this into law which fell when this parliament ended. She was challenged vigorously by ‘trans widows’ and other women for supporting an action which would see them trapped in a legal partnership, now entirely altered."

That's a quote from the WPUK article but the formatting has gone haywire.

@TinselAngel

Would you mind sending me a copy of your email too? I am planning to email my Lib Dem candidate to query his views on it - I think I feel so strongly that I cannot vote for him, but I would like to express eloquently why not.

Green party manifesto also includes the pledge to remove what they call the 'spousal veto'. Fuckers.

Who on earth can we vote for? Are any of our politicians prepared to stand up for women's rights? Am feeling thoroughly depressed about the whole thing. How on earth have we ended up here?

Fuck what is Wrong with them all?!

Green party manifesto also includes the pledge to remove what they call the 'spousal veto'. Fuckers.

Oh FFS

@TinselAngel please could I have a copy of your email too so I can email my local candidate.

Thank you

Sent @pistachioicecream @thetoddleratemyhomework

I'd like to write to my local LD and Green candidates about this but just want to clarify a couple of things:

• they are proposing that someone could get a GRC without their spouse first consenting to stay married. Under their proposals would they legally have to notify their spouse or is it possible someone could get a GRC without telling their partner? I.e. could you be in a same-sex marriage without knowing it?
• as far as I'm aware both LD and Greens support self-ID. Does that mean one half of the relationship could just fill out a form (without their partner's consent) and change their marriage into a same-sex marriage?
• in this scenario does that mean when you divorce you are divorcing Mrs X (your wife)? Are they still referred to as the father?

Much respect to all the trans widows on here, I've experienced what it's like to be constantly gaslit in a relationship to the point of questioning your own sanity but this is next level.

I don't know if the Greens have specified, but Baroness Barker's HOL Bill proposed that the person obtaining the GRC would have to sign a statutory declaration that their spouse had been notified.
Would this be checked? I don't know.

Sorry to answer your other questions- I'm not sure of the technicalities of their self ID proposals, but probably.

They're still legally the Father, but it's not how many of them like to be known.

Thank you, that's helpful. Although this is a pretty niche issue it has put me off voting Green or LD. It just demonstrates how these 2 lily livered parties are willing to bulldoze some people's rights in order to appease the group shouting the loudest. First they come for the trans widows, then they come for the rest of us.

(And yes I know Labour aren't much better but my local candidate is one of the few who have actually spoken up about the conflict between women's and trans rights)

I’m thinking of writing to my local labour leader to ask her opinion on this as at the moment I have absolutely no idea who to vote for. I can’t bring myself to vote Tory - Lib Dem’s and green are out.

@TinselAngel
Thank you!!

I wrote to my LD candidate, who said:

• thanks for writing to me about this issue (my email was adapted from yours and covered spousal veto and self ID)
• I think the best way to ensure human rights are protected is to stay in the EU. (I may tend to agree with this, but obviously fails to address the issue)
• as the article from Jenni Russell in the times (which I linked to in relation to self ID) says, no political party addresses these issues at present

Total cop out (and also not totally accurate - tories' policy is to retain the spousal veto and have slowed down on self ID - not great, but better than Lib Dem).

Can't vote Lib Dem sadly. Have written to Tory candidate to see what sort of response I get for comparison. Will either hold nose and vote Tory or spoil ballot.

I’m currently drafting an email to my local labour candidate. I really feel that if she doesn’t agree with me that women should retain single sex spaces then I’m going to have to vote Tory which I said I would never do. I feel like I sound a bit stupid, I used to be fantastic at writing things but I can’t seem to get my point across.

I think the best way to ensure human rights are protected is to stay in the EU.

It'd be funny that this is supposedly the solution if it wasn't so tragic.

Somebody else was told by their local candidate Lib Dem candidate that "this sort of thing should be decided by a People's Assembly".

Bunch of amateurs.

@TinselAngel

Yup, it is frustrating. But at least his position is so crap that I don't feel the need for any more angst about it!!

Hi Tinsel,

Could I have a copy of your template please?
Thanks

Sent @wohmum