Karen Ingala Smith in Parliament now on single sex refuges

[Anlaf]

She's excellent, as i think is Jess Philips. Karen's talking v movingly of the challenges in offering women only refuge services, the two boroughs where her organisation has had pushback already for not being inclusive enough, and in assessing male-born people for risk in accessing female services

Watch live:

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c

Lots of handwaving from one Maria Miller

My assessment - most of the MPs are presenting carefully prepped questions which allow Karen to say how bad it is:

Karen's confirmed they've had one transwoman employee who flashed female team members,

A chief executive of another women's refuge was asked to give evidence - she contacted Karen to say she was too scared to give evidence because of the flack

The two boroughs: in one a funder said she was less keen to fund because of Nia (KI-S's organisation) policy, and in another a council bod called them extreme feminists.

Pressure is to provide men's services, but also include all trans people in gender of choice.

In risk assessment, Karen's pointing out the impossibility of quickly assessing whether a transwoman has experienced men's violence and unpicked their male socialisation - transgender people born male who are fetishists of female victimhood, or men pretending to be trans who are perpetrators using that status to hunt down women.

Note on the last - in her experience, transgender people, born male, who are fetishists of female victimhood have been offered services by female only refuge.

Thanks, will try to listen later!

(Karen has a great habit of putting her hand up when she wants to add something disagree )

(there's been loads of twaddle about lesbians and how they don't experience male violence but female violence...)

KIS: 2 lesbians killed in the Femicide census data - but by men (one ex partner, one a new partner of the woman's ex female partner)

Jess Philips has - playing Devil's Advocate - asked whether there should be specific services for LGBT, or maybe just T people.

Diana James (who runs male and female refuges and also has a trans history) has said, after long pause... no, there wouldn't be demand and there have been no issues with their approach.

Interestingly, DJ thinks all refuges should be transinclusive in future, but in her refuges no GRC is required, only post-op transwomen are in main women's refuge. Pre op transwomen are in a special annexe.

Sarah Campion has asked for more consideration of what survivors want.

DJ "A transwomen wants to go into a women's refuge"

Sarah Campion: "I'm talking about all the people accessing it"

DJ: "Refuges have to be inclusive of all women and all men"

KIS: That's not true - if a refuge admits women and males who identify as transgender then it is in fact admitting women and men. It's a legal fiction - but people will remain of the sex are born".

KIS: I want to talk about proportionality - I agree with what Diana said, that we are talking about small numbers...

KIS

Karen's confirmed they've had one transwoman employee who flashed female team members,

What?????

yep R0, listen at 10:17 ish...

Phwoooooaaaaarrrr. KIS is magnificent.

Jess Philips is peak transing?

it's nice seeing Jess Phillips in action. I think she's great

thanks for signposting this btw Anlaf, I'm watching with interest

small numbers of men who identify as transgender, but we're talking about huge numbers of women in refuges and they might be affected by that one person.

This is the issue that few people seem to understand.

Yes, only 1 in 200 male people want to access female spaces, but that one male person could distress and harm many women.

Who was laughing when KIS was talking?

Jess Philips is peak transing?

I think she's too loyal to the left/ the labour party to peak. But we'll see...

Jess and Karen are great.
Diana sounds like she would be happier running a mixed sex refuge.

Who was laughing

I assume Diana James as that's who Karen glanced in direction of - not in shot though

Sorry - JM continues with the transwoman causing distress to other residents with their male presentation:

JM: That hasn't come as a complaint, and the EA2010 wasn't used in that instance, it was resolved through group work and house meetings and kindof working with the population in that service

Linking to Regualatory capture thread.
Demonstration that this has happened in Women's Sevices evident today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3541908-Regulatory-capture

Recent thread discussing how single sex homeless services (St Mungos) also made same sex despite the reasons for them being set up the impact of male abuse and violence on vulnerable women who are homeless.
(its not just about refuge & rape services)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3553405-To-ask-you-to-write-to-St-Mungos-and-Womens-Aid-about-this

That hasn't come as a complaint, and the EA2010 wasn't used in that instance, it was resolved through group work and house meetings and kind of working with the population in that service

The women were trained to not complain any more (just as they had been in the abusive relationship they were trying to leave.)
Thats not how DV support and recovery work.

Have watched a bit. It’s now finished. Could someone do me a big favour and say who the 3 women sitting together were? Not in the know here. One with long hair, one with shorter gray hair, one with red hair. Thanks!

Thank you for posting this OP, I would have never watched it had you not.

Great to see the conversations, Sarah C seemed to understand the nuance and Janet M was very handwavy and Karen incredibly to the point.

I hope they're starting to listen.
Although MM incredibly patronising at the end about ppl outside the room paying heed to the fact that reasonable debate is possible...

Yes we fucking know, it's the other side with the abuse and threats!

L to R on screen:

Diana James, Volunteer, Cornwall Refuge Trust Women’s Refuge & Norda House Men’s Refuge (long hair)
Janet McDermott, Head of Membership, Women's Aid,
Karen Ingala Smith, Chief Executive, Nia (Red curly hair, EXCELLENT)

The women were trained to not complain any more

Yep - I imagine like Janet set out. e.g. you wouldn't worry about a Lesbian with short hair would you, etc.

Karen's confirmed they've had one transwoman employee who flashed female team members,

Actually sorry R0 - it's at 10:13:30

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c?in=10:13:30

There's a lot that is infuriating about the above discussion but at least they are now happening within a parliamentary setting (see also Joanna Cherry).

This is far better than a load of trans-org woke scolds dictating policy behind closed doors which is what led to the illegal dismantling of the EA and unbalanced decision making without consulting women.

It feels slow but I think progress is being made by separating out the issues (sports, VAWG, healthcare, prisons etc..) and tackling the ethics around each area.

Ive sent the link to my MP, whom I have met with about single sex spaces, and got absolutely nowhere.

This was excellent. Thank you for posting.

Massive crush on KIS. Massive.