Karen Ingala Smith in Parliament now on single sex refuges

[Anlaf]

She's excellent, as i think is Jess Philips. Karen's talking v movingly of the challenges in offering women only refuge services, the two boroughs where her organisation has had pushback already for not being inclusive enough, and in assessing male-born people for risk in accessing female services

Watch live:

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c

Lots of handwaving from one Maria Miller

Fantastic that this has even happened, debate needs to happen and light be shone on the TRAs lack of argument - besides "my male born supremacy and feelings must be placed above all else"

finished watching now

Here's an instructive 20 second segment:

Sarah Champion: I'm not hearing the voices of the survivors in this
Diana James: A transwoman wants to go into a woman's refuge
Sarah Champion: I'm talking about all people accessing it
Diana James: I'm sorry?

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c?in=10:46:40&out=10:47:00

And the laughable bit where Diana James and Janet McDermott pretend that it's impossible to define a single sex space. You wonder how they get themselves dressed in the morning when simple things seem to completely escape them

Karen was magnificent though. So calm, so articulate. I thought she was great.

actually having seen Jess Phillips and Sarah Champion in action I feel marginally more cheerful about the Labour Party subs that leave my bank account each month. I thought they were both asking the right questions.

I was pleasantly surprised by Sarah Champion. I knew she was good on taking an abolitionist position to prostitution but from what I'd seen from her on GRA previously I wasn't expecting her to be on womens side in this debate.

im just stunned that this is where we are with womens rights. you couldnt make it up.
we knew the rights could be taken away- we didn't know it would be by taking away the word woman itself.

i know that talking in parliament has s progress but that conversation 'who defines a woman' has enraged me.

I think we should all give thanks that Karen Ingala-Smith represented adult human females in that committee session. I know I do!

Thank you Karen.

Yes, thank you Karen, women like you keep me from losing my hope and sanity.

im just stunned that this is where we are with womens rights. you couldnt make it up.
we knew the rights could be taken away- we didn't know it would be by taking away the word woman itself.
Or that there would be women like Maria Miller playing an instrumental role in the assault on women's rights. Women MPs need to speak up!

I'm quite concerned that a volunteer is being given an equal platform to an experienced CEO. Not that volunteers aren't valuable, but it doesn't seem appropriate in this circumstance.

Yes, this. Particularly one who has 'skin in the game' from a personal and political perspective too in that they are trans themselves and politically active as such.

I'm quite concerned that a volunteer is being given an equal platform to an experienced CEO. Not that volunteers aren't valuable, but it doesn't seem appropriate in this circumstance.

Especially when this male volunteer was also able to speak as a survivor of DV and described that this violence was perpetrated by 'another woman' (sex unknown)
Where were the women survivors of male violence?

Diana James was also quite intimidating when Janet was speaking - for quite long periods just staring fixedatedly at her. I would have been very uncomfortable speaking on a panel where the person sitting next to me was staring at me like that.

It really shows where we are that someone representing Women's Aid seems confused about what women are. If I was techy-minded I would make a meme of that and tweet it everywhere.

Especially when this male volunteer was also able to speak as a survivor of DV and described that this violence was perpetrated by 'another woman' (sex unknown)

Good point - I hadn't thought of that. It's all so frustrating, we need words to mean something goddamit

It really shows where we are that someone representing Women's Aid seems confused about what women are. If I was techy-minded I would make a meme of that and tweet it everywhere.

It was telling that Diana James sought to focus on the issue being inclusive for 'LGBT+' The issue for women's services by definition would not include the 'G' and the issue of protecting single sex services means that the issue is not about the'T' but about male transgender people.

Janet Mcdormmot should be very well versed and able to discuss and identify the issue of male-pattern violence. THat she seemed so hampered by the language of 'inclusivity' whilst sat alongside a trans rights activist is telling.

Diane James at the end says that the issue is in the definition of sex and that this is unclear and contested.

I hope Maria Miller reflects on the role she has played in the fact such a 'problem' might be expressed.

Also on Jess Philips, she did make some great points, however she also gave a fair degree of nonsense a free pass (and presumably signed off that panel)

I'm following a couple of other select committee inquiries at the moment (different subject entirely) where both the process and chairing is significantly more robust.

Sorry ignore that last comment, am an idiot, thought Jess Philips was chairing whereas it was of course Maria Miller

I'm following a couple of other select committee inquiries at the moment (different subject entirely) where both the process and chairing is significantly more robust.

The Women and Equalities Committee is toothless because it's unable to examine women's issues without a "what about the men" angle, and time and energy is wasted on dancing around the various elephants in the room. Janet M's performance was a prime example.

Ok, deep breath Karen's confirmed they've had one transwoman employee who flashed female team members, what did they flash? Their tits? Their fanny? ‘Her’ penis?

When will people stop being so bloody pathetic and call a spade a spade (or in this case a male a man)?

Karen did - she was awesome!

I thought Sarah Champion did a good job in pinning down the Womens' Aid rep by a particular line of questioning.

Champion started by saying that we have an Equality Act. it defines the protectected characteristics and exemptions. It is the law and has been for nearly a decade. What guidance did Women's Aid provide to members wanting advice about excluding a man, UNDER THE CURRENT LAW.

None was the eventual answer - but there was work in progress for guidelines to embed inclusivity and the diversity of different kinds of women.

There was vigorous head-shaking from KIS and Sarah Champion's face was a picture.

There was also a point where Sarah Champion said "I find that very hard to believe' when told that there had been no complaints or enquiries from members about trans referrals or trans employees.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall of the private session that followed the panel.

Karen is so clear and reasonable. I can't believe this discussion is even happening.

Karen IS was awesome. you know all the things you wish someone would say when they get interviewed about this issue? she said every last one. it was frankly cathartic to know that at least someone has presented Maria Miller with the actual facts, in person.

I had to stop watching. Having lived in refuges and watching someone suggest that its okay if you send a violent man away after he has been shown where the refuge is was the last straw for me. I had to move because there was a small chance that my 4 year old had told daddy where we were.

I do hope it improved after this point.

On Diana James’ Twitter there is a complaint that when traveling to the panel, GWR’s wifi wouldn't let them access a sex toy site.

Apparently it’s “not good enough” that GWR “shames” people for looking at strap-ons in public by not letting them.

Show of hands all those women that have browsed for a new Vibrator on the bus?

Anybody? Anybody?

Rowan has probably posted it already, but does anyone remember reading all those testimonies from women in refuges who felt they had no voice and definitely were not comfortable with males in female refuges. It was heartbreaking, I cried buckets reading it.

What makes me so bloody angry though, who are they to give away spaces built and paid for by women? They can decry older feminists all they like, we are the ones who fought for those female only spaces, who gave our bloody scraps of time and money so vulnerable women could be safe. Just so bloody angry at them all. Who do they think they are? What right do they have?

Show of hands all those women that have browsed for a new Vibrator on the bus?

Anybody? Anybody?

Seriously? Seriously? It is a fucking fetish. Sex toys on public transport. No mind to who else might be able to see? Pathetic.

Yes, FLippinfumin. What I found irritating about that panel was the assertion that because their were no official complaints that that de facto meant all women who had shared a refuge with a transwomen were comfortable with it.

Women are far more likely to keep quiet or just extricate themselves from an environment where they feel vulnerable but unsupported.