Karen Ingala Smith in Parliament now on single sex refuges

[Anlaf]

She's excellent, as i think is Jess Philips. Karen's talking v movingly of the challenges in offering women only refuge services, the two boroughs where her organisation has had pushback already for not being inclusive enough, and in assessing male-born people for risk in accessing female services

Watch live:

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0d07ff13-636e-4b51-a946-2877e583dc4c

Lots of handwaving from one Maria Miller

I am furious that Diana James was even invited to be on that panel. Furious. How dare someone ask for their opinion when it's the thousands of women who need single sex provision that need to be able to give their voices. The elephant in the room was Diana James presence, within 30 cm of Jane, Diana stared at her the whole time. How did we let a fox into the chicken coop?

It was a case study of male entitlement and female socialisation in action wasn't it? With James imperiously staring down at Janet as if daring her to step out of line (and who sniggered at KIS during her testimony? Well done her for calling it out)

Whilst Janet simpered away desperate to please wondering who had the authority to determine what a 'woman' is and hand winging about power and coercive control and the 'patriarchy' whilst it glares down at her.

Feminine presentation changes nothing. The power imbalance is still there (and exacerbated where it causes people to completely lose sight of their moral compass [yes, capitulated women's sector - I'm looking at you]).

I watched this yesterday and found it very interesting. Karen was excellent - clear and concise (unlike waffly Janet) and got lots of really important points across. I agree that it's annoying that Diane James was included but it helped to demonstrate what the problems are, especially the complete lack of consideration given by James to the female service users and James' insistence that single-sex provision was essential but this included transwomen. As some of the MPs seemed keen to accept there were no issues, this was useful.

I especially like the Scottish Women's Aid woman saying "what if we phrase it like this?" and KIS saying "no, that is not acceptable because x,y,z"

Love me an assertive, calm, informed, articulate woman with a bloody-good-point, I do.

It was a case study of male entitlement and female socialisation in action wasn't it?

Yes. It's rare in a situation such as this for male entitlement to be on display, and so many people are pretending not to see it.

"What is it about public transport that leads so many of these 'advisers' to the government to think it's OK to view sex sites or act out inappropriate behaviour with no thought to the impact on nearby children or members of the public? "

One class of people says -- great, it's public that means I own it (so I can do what I want).

Another class says -- it's public that means I don't own it/have to share it, so I have to be careful/considerate.

Oddly enough, the behaviour of the first group often reinforces the reaction of the second. And the membership of a group is often fairly predictable based on objective criteria like sex. Funny that........

One class of people says --* great, it's public that means I own it (so I can do what I want).

Another class says-- it's public that means I don't own it/have to share it, so I have to be careful/considerate.*

This is so true!!!

Yes SomeDyke, that is absolutely true.

Karen Ingala Smith WPUK speech last year about the Women's sector.
Karen discusses the realities of the assessment process in refuges.

MJ was very hard to take seriously on any level, especially watching whilst knowing what MJ had been thinking about on the journey. Many of MJ's points were well off and it made me wonder exactly what MJ's volunteer role is, as MJ seemed to have no clue about refuge operations, referrals, risk assessment, safeguarding and so on.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF I had the same thoughts. I think the transcript will be useful as there were a number of points made which rang bells for me.

Remind me who MJ is? I get them muddled up watching on a small phone screen

Apologies, I was referring to Diane James (DJ)

Diana James, Volunteer, Cornwall Refuge Trust Women’s Refuge & Norda House Men’s Refuge

BettyFloot that's so deeply moving - women survivors and their concern and empathy for others

Thank you OP, I had no idea this was happening I've just watched the whole thing.

I would like to know what the meeting would have been like without DJ

With the exception of KIS they are all TERRIFIED of using the wrong language

Callmejudith

I thought it was very noticeable the impact that this had on the discussion.

I would like to know what the meeting would have been like without DJ

Me too. Particularly Janet.

Can't be often that a volunteer to resents an organisation in a parliamentary committee and yet Janet, the experienced professional seemed to be tripping over herself to not to say the wrong thing whereas DJ said some pretty odd stuff, yet with complete authority

By odd stuff I'm particularly thinking of the exchange around the police checks and no immediate referrals (refuge for vulnerable women??) and the part where part where DJ needed several prompts to click that the question of impact also involved the impact of the TW on the women in the refuge rather than just the TW

Jemima I thought that was odd too. Jess Phillips said she'd never done a police check on a victim. Does DJ only do them on TW then?

And what is the constant talk of BME women...it's not the fucking same!!!

Jess Phillips worked in business development, not front line services. Her job was bidding for funding, so no, she would not need to do anything with victims from her head office desk.

Yes, James being on that panel probably thought it was going to be a women's space and failing to realise that the mere fact of James' presence means it can never be a women's space and immediately becomes a mixed sex space. [Obviously, James was spectacularly unable to intimidate KIS, who was brilliantly assertive. Thank you Karen!]

This is something that these AGP males always fail to understand. They can never be in a female space by virtue of their presence. The only time any space is female space is when there are no males of any kind within it. Their fantasy is unattainable on so many levels.

Karen Ingala Smith was magnificent and awesome. So clear, so logical, so consistent. She had prepared extraordinarily well.

I want to be like her when I grow up.

I thought Sarah Champion was simpatico, but I couldn't work out what Angela [didn't catch her last name] was trying to get at. I suspect she's drunk the TRA kool-aid.