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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How To Destroy A Lesbian Bar - Atlantic article by Helen Lewis

130 replies

Brefugee · 27/09/2026 08:17

Couldn't find a thread about this - an article about how left-wing activism eats its own young. It is how a Lesbian bar that announced mask free evenings (as the Covid pandemic was waning) was absolutely slaughtered.

How to Destroy a Lesbian Bar - The Atlantic

archive article here

archive.today/rkPpg

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 27/09/2026 10:39

Justme56 · 27/09/2026 09:54

Julie Bindel wrote that similar things were happening as early as the 1970s.

x.com/bindelj/status/2103126957990826304?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

I remember this sort of stuff going on. It’s why I detached myself entirely from “movements”. I went to work on a fishing boat instead. Hard work, healthy exercise, no bullshit. Eventually I bought my own boat.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 27/09/2026 10:42

lcakethereforeIam · 27/09/2026 10:38

I'm not sure about how it works, wearing a mask in a bar. How do you get the drink in? Are they all drunk through straws? That'd ruin any draught beers, wouldn't it. Or is there a method; take several deep breaths, hold (or exhale?) on the last one, lift drink, lift mask, drink, quickly replace mask, breathe normally until next sip?

It must be a bugger to order on those, apparently vanishingly rare, evenings when the bar is busy and noisy. The barthem wouldn't be able to lip read. Music would be right out.

I'm assuming food, even crisps and pork scratchings are off the menu. Unless you stuff them in your mask and eat them like a nose bag.

This might explain why the bar is having financial difficulties...

iwishitwouldstartraining · 27/09/2026 10:43

Kingdomofsleep · 27/09/2026 10:21

This article is just really sad. It's celebrating Violet's choice to wear a mask (she says she had post viral illness and medicine doesn't have all the answers) but actually it's just anxiety that wins, and people are applauding that. I've posted before on MN about how post partum anxiety was something I had to struggle against but I made the decision that I'd take a miniscule chance of disaster over a certainty of restricting my children's lives.

And the "subculture of victimhood" that is discussed upthread has a big overlap with anxiety i think. It's a subculture in which people tell themselves that the odds are stacked against them. They've definitely got a minority of entitled complainers (the Soe Noire described in the article does sound particularly difficult) but I think the majority within this lefty-inclusive culture are just very anxious people and it's a vicious cycle that breeds more collective anxiety. They're anxious about illness, but also anxious about being excluded from the group.

To be completely fair on Violet, if I looked identical to my famous mother and my famous father were as famous for his car crash personal life as his acting career, I too might enjoy wearing a mask and be sad to see them go.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 11:08

"drive-by whinings by sociopaths"
"identarian deference"
Great stuff!

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 12:18

Justme56 · 27/09/2026 09:54

Julie Bindel wrote that similar things were happening as early as the 1970s.

x.com/bindelj/status/2103126957990826304?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

It's why Rick from The Young Ones was so scarily real.

NormalityIsOverrated · 27/09/2026 12:56

borntobequiet · 27/09/2026 10:39

I remember this sort of stuff going on. It’s why I detached myself entirely from “movements”. I went to work on a fishing boat instead. Hard work, healthy exercise, no bullshit. Eventually I bought my own boat.

Wow! Go you.

NormalityIsOverrated · 27/09/2026 13:16

Ok, I didn't know about this so thank you for the thread @Brefugee
I was particularly perplexed by this
Soe Noire—a self-declared lesbian using he/him pronouns identifies as Trans? I mean wtf? This is just delusional and not in a good way, or have I actually missed something important? Genuine question.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 13:22

NormalityIsOverrated · 27/09/2026 13:16

Ok, I didn't know about this so thank you for the thread @Brefugee
I was particularly perplexed by this
Soe Noire—a self-declared lesbian using he/him pronouns identifies as Trans? I mean wtf? This is just delusional and not in a good way, or have I actually missed something important? Genuine question.

I noticed that too, but was too polite lol to ask.
Or should that be, fearful of the answer.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 27/09/2026 13:23

NormalityIsOverrated · 27/09/2026 13:16

Ok, I didn't know about this so thank you for the thread @Brefugee
I was particularly perplexed by this
Soe Noire—a self-declared lesbian using he/him pronouns identifies as Trans? I mean wtf? This is just delusional and not in a good way, or have I actually missed something important? Genuine question.

I know, it breaks the brain doesn't it, probably no surprise we have so many broken kidults in the West, with all this batshitery whooshing around in their poor little brains.
Did Queer Theory break their brains or did their broken brains make Queer Theory.
The mask thing is the stupid cherry on the stupid cake. Nuts all of them.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 13:46

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 27/09/2026 13:23

I know, it breaks the brain doesn't it, probably no surprise we have so many broken kidults in the West, with all this batshitery whooshing around in their poor little brains.
Did Queer Theory break their brains or did their broken brains make Queer Theory.
The mask thing is the stupid cherry on the stupid cake. Nuts all of them.

Can you imagine the blowback that a rightwing activist called Soe Blanc would get? Lol.

RogueFemale · 27/09/2026 13:49

I had no idea that masking was virtue signalling. It explains why so many of they/thems wear masks at protests- I mean here in the UK - I'd thought it was to hide their faces so they couldn't be photographed/identified.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 13:56

RogueFemale · 27/09/2026 13:49

I had no idea that masking was virtue signalling. It explains why so many of they/thems wear masks at protests- I mean here in the UK - I'd thought it was to hide their faces so they couldn't be photographed/identified.

There's so much of it about. I travel to work via Cambridge, and masks are everywhere. Plus what looks like an epidemic of women including young females using walking sticks.
Sure, some of this may be osteoporosis or broken legs.
But why the increase?
Long COVID, ME etc?
A social affectation to secure personal space?
A neurodiverse strategy?
A spike in gender medicalized osteoporosis/osteopenia?

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 14:01

I mention this because some of it feels like a corollary to masking culture that never fully died out after Covid.
The left have to virtue signal, the stress on "signal" via Palestine flag, TWAW banners, and it seems, face masks.
I just can't imagine hanging out at a bar where the focus is on the politics, not the drinking.
Hey, I can talk politics, GC matters, all day long.
But I stop when the bouncer lets me into my local Wetherspoons, lol.

RoyalCorgi · 27/09/2026 14:04

It's a completely mad story and Helen Lewis has a lot of fun with it.

I think this idea of certain things being "left-coded" is the key to a lot of stuff. So as a PP said, believing men can be women is left-coded, and so if you're left you have to believe in it regardless of whether deep down you realise it's nonsense. I read an article by Ian Leslie yesterday, the thrust of which was that, when it came to education, the left is wrong about everything. One of the examples he gave was the use of phonics to teach children to read: even though there is a substantial weight of evidence to support phonics, the left is against it, preferring other methods.

And you think: why be against phonics? It's insane. There's nothing inherently right-wing or left-wing in the differing methods you can teach children to read. It's the same with the masks and the trans stuff: it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it, and you continue to believe in that position even when it's perfectly obvious that it makes no sense.

JellySaurus · 27/09/2026 14:05

Good-natured herbivorous lefties are easy marks for narcissists and mimophants.

Yup. We see this all the time.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 14:09

Mimophants, I'd love it to catch on.
Can you imagine an elephant that just charges thru the jungle or your village, crushing everything in its path.
But when you tap it on the shoulder and ask it "you do realize the reason you're running amok is wrong?", it starts to run around in circles and falls over in a dizzy fit.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 14:28

RoyalCorgi · 27/09/2026 14:04

It's a completely mad story and Helen Lewis has a lot of fun with it.

I think this idea of certain things being "left-coded" is the key to a lot of stuff. So as a PP said, believing men can be women is left-coded, and so if you're left you have to believe in it regardless of whether deep down you realise it's nonsense. I read an article by Ian Leslie yesterday, the thrust of which was that, when it came to education, the left is wrong about everything. One of the examples he gave was the use of phonics to teach children to read: even though there is a substantial weight of evidence to support phonics, the left is against it, preferring other methods.

And you think: why be against phonics? It's insane. There's nothing inherently right-wing or left-wing in the differing methods you can teach children to read. It's the same with the masks and the trans stuff: it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it, and you continue to believe in that position even when it's perfectly obvious that it makes no sense.

Wasn't one of the few absolute successes of the Tory govt 2010-2024 in English, the UK leapt up the PISA league table. Did that apply to maths as well?
I suspect that was down to some consistency in tried and tested teaching methods.
I dreaded when Phillipson became Edu Sec. Good luck for the rest of a Labour govt.

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2026 14:36

RoyalCorgi · 27/09/2026 14:04

It's a completely mad story and Helen Lewis has a lot of fun with it.

I think this idea of certain things being "left-coded" is the key to a lot of stuff. So as a PP said, believing men can be women is left-coded, and so if you're left you have to believe in it regardless of whether deep down you realise it's nonsense. I read an article by Ian Leslie yesterday, the thrust of which was that, when it came to education, the left is wrong about everything. One of the examples he gave was the use of phonics to teach children to read: even though there is a substantial weight of evidence to support phonics, the left is against it, preferring other methods.

And you think: why be against phonics? It's insane. There's nothing inherently right-wing or left-wing in the differing methods you can teach children to read. It's the same with the masks and the trans stuff: it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it, and you continue to believe in that position even when it's perfectly obvious that it makes no sense.

Teaching methods are definitely politically coded. Prog v trad.

The left tend to favour what are called 'progressive' teaching methods which would include group work, discovery learning, creativity, coursework and behaviour management through restorative conversations.

Then there are traditional teaching methods where the teacher tells the kids what they need to know, phonics and memorising times tables, learning facts, exams and behaviour management through rules and sanction. These were championed by Gove so are often automatically dismissed by the left, but unfortunately they actually work better than prog methods, as evidenced by the latest PISA scores, so lots of people who might consider themselves left wing have been convinced. They then get accused of being Tory by the progs.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 14:46

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2026 14:36

Teaching methods are definitely politically coded. Prog v trad.

The left tend to favour what are called 'progressive' teaching methods which would include group work, discovery learning, creativity, coursework and behaviour management through restorative conversations.

Then there are traditional teaching methods where the teacher tells the kids what they need to know, phonics and memorising times tables, learning facts, exams and behaviour management through rules and sanction. These were championed by Gove so are often automatically dismissed by the left, but unfortunately they actually work better than prog methods, as evidenced by the latest PISA scores, so lots of people who might consider themselves left wing have been convinced. They then get accused of being Tory by the progs.

Did you hear reports of the acrimony at the meet between Edu Sec Phillipson and Katherine Birbalsingh. You could have cut it with a knife. Even the raised hackles had raised hackles.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 27/09/2026 15:01

RoyalCorgi · 27/09/2026 14:04

It's a completely mad story and Helen Lewis has a lot of fun with it.

I think this idea of certain things being "left-coded" is the key to a lot of stuff. So as a PP said, believing men can be women is left-coded, and so if you're left you have to believe in it regardless of whether deep down you realise it's nonsense. I read an article by Ian Leslie yesterday, the thrust of which was that, when it came to education, the left is wrong about everything. One of the examples he gave was the use of phonics to teach children to read: even though there is a substantial weight of evidence to support phonics, the left is against it, preferring other methods.

And you think: why be against phonics? It's insane. There's nothing inherently right-wing or left-wing in the differing methods you can teach children to read. It's the same with the masks and the trans stuff: it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it, and you continue to believe in that position even when it's perfectly obvious that it makes no sense.

it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it

Works the other way too, although I think it's more obvious in America with things like vaccines and climate change and guns, and, as pointed out in the article, being virulently anti-masks at the height of the pandemic.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 27/09/2026 15:05

noblegiraffe · 27/09/2026 14:36

Teaching methods are definitely politically coded. Prog v trad.

The left tend to favour what are called 'progressive' teaching methods which would include group work, discovery learning, creativity, coursework and behaviour management through restorative conversations.

Then there are traditional teaching methods where the teacher tells the kids what they need to know, phonics and memorising times tables, learning facts, exams and behaviour management through rules and sanction. These were championed by Gove so are often automatically dismissed by the left, but unfortunately they actually work better than prog methods, as evidenced by the latest PISA scores, so lots of people who might consider themselves left wing have been convinced. They then get accused of being Tory by the progs.

We know the Prog way doesn't work in Wales.

s

Wales has the UK's worst school results by far. We investigated why

Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) assessments don't make for pretty reading for the Welsh government.

And still the grifters down the bay cling to the 'right way' of doing things. 😡

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 15:08

I'm friends with a lovely couple in their 80s.
What I call proper old school left wing/traditional Labour.
They fought the NF and BNP in the 70s-00s when they lived on the Isle Of Dogs and Brick Lane.
Totally solid people, even though I'm rightwing, we have a <ton> in common.
But they've moved from the left, more accurately it's the left that have moved from them.
So, they have zero truck with the Omnicause, and what Helen in the article calls "IDentarian deference". For added spice, they're Jewish and feel betrayed by the left and it's draconian stance post-7/10.
Oh, they have children, in their 40s and 50s, in academia, the arts incl theater/films, and literature.
And it's wall to wall Omnicause, absolute language tone policing, Palestinians flags, TWAW banners. And teir parents, my friends, are pretty much coralled into what they can and cannot say, they've been called enablers of hate for questioning TWAW or bringing up the actions of Hamas on 7/10.
For grown adults, their children, apparently self declared proud believers in truth and robust argument, don't understand the truth, and refuse to argue their points.
They're the adult political equivalent of 7 years olds stepping on toes and running away in huffs.
One of them secured Arts Council funding for a play with an LGBTQ+ motif, their mum told me it was the silliest thing she'd seen in her long and eventful life.
From fighting racists, securing women's and gay rights...to watching films about imaginary identities, and traducing Jews, this is the timeline of the left in one families narrative.

Brefugee · 27/09/2026 15:08

iwishitwouldstartraining · 27/09/2026 15:01

it's adopting an insane position just because everyone else in your tribe believes it

Works the other way too, although I think it's more obvious in America with things like vaccines and climate change and guns, and, as pointed out in the article, being virulently anti-masks at the height of the pandemic.

it is a weird state of affairs, that i ponder endlessly, that while most things are becoming more binary with no middle ground - this is not true of Gender Identity which is expanding to fill all known space

OP posts:
MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 27/09/2026 15:13

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 27/09/2026 15:05

We know the Prog way doesn't work in Wales.

s

Wales has the UK's worst school results by far. We investigated why

Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) assessments don't make for pretty reading for the Welsh government.

And still the grifters down the bay cling to the 'right way' of doing things. 😡

Have you heard what Polanski has planned for schools if he gained power?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 27/09/2026 15:19

He couldn't break something that's already been smashed to pieces, the rest of the UK should be afraid though, because if he ends up in power you'll all be as broken as Wales is in 5 years tops.