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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

837 replies

nauticant · 24/09/2026 13:07

TLDR version: Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing is currently being heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and is scheduled to end on Thursday 1 October 2026.

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against the Royal College of Nursing, against three senior managers who were witnesses in the employment tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in current and future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

OP posts:
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19
NumberTheory · 25/09/2026 23:30

Datun · 25/09/2026 15:11

Wtf??

The Carr Report was commissioned after the RCN had to cancel their in person conference and turn it virtual because of the risks of sexual harassment of members by male members and staff. There was a thread on Feminism Chat at the time

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4334882-RCN-conference-cancelled-due-to-sexual-harassment?reply=110369334

WFTCHTJ · 25/09/2026 23:31

nauticant · 25/09/2026 22:47

In addition, he claimed that had gender critical RCN members asked the organisation to promote the GC cause it would have done so with as much enthusiasm as it had promoted the genderist cause. There would have been special days, celebrations, and everything.

Do we have any soon to be retired RCN members who fancy taking up the challenge of requesting said merch, citing his under oath offer?

SomewhatGlad · 25/09/2026 23:40

There's another website where I also spend too much time, which has implicitly or explicitly TWAW groups, but you don't have to go there, TWAM is not spoken of.
It has these reaction options -
educational
interesting
funny
agree
disagree
love
That's probably why I want to click on 'funny' here so often.

The significant differences are -
you can 'hide' any button, so you could choose not to see or give any 'disagrees', for example, or even hide all the buttons
you can click more than one button on the same post
you can see the total number of clicks on each button that people have given that post
you can't see who clicked your buttons, nor can the group moderators. I have no idea if the people who set up and run the website can see them, but they are far less visible than the MN ones and rarely post.

lcakethereforeIam · 25/09/2026 23:48

Just quickly checked out the RCN shop. The have a section for 'Campaign' material that they'll send you for free. Includes a RCN branded progress flag badge. Odd that it's something included in Campaign material if they've not taken a position on it.

Hope the picture attaches🤞

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63
Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 23:54

I am not commenting on NC strategy here, but am wondering if I am missing something.

there has been no mention as to what policy did or did not exist regarding employee with gender ID facility usage.

so if one did not exist across the Scottish NHS, why did Norman have to go to SWAG about this?

and why did NC not mention this

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · Yesterday 01:02

What the Trust/Scottish NHS policy may or may not have been isn't really relevant to this case. It's only about what the union did or didn't do to support SP, and why.

Shedmistress · Yesterday 03:40

Just caught up.

Thank you all, it really is the modern day Catch 22 isn't it?

Justabaker · Yesterday 06:21

Rightsraptor · 25/09/2026 22:19

I've just read Nick W's round up of today's shenanigans, not having heard any of it live myself, but did Provan seriously suggest that the colours of women's suffrage could be incorporated into the Progress Pride flag & the RCN would sell such merch?

Yes, he actually said that.

Conxis · Yesterday 06:30

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 23:54

I am not commenting on NC strategy here, but am wondering if I am missing something.

there has been no mention as to what policy did or did not exist regarding employee with gender ID facility usage.

so if one did not exist across the Scottish NHS, why did Norman have to go to SWAG about this?

and why did NC not mention this

TT
NC at the time of SC judgement they suspended policies and withdrew back. No policy in the system at the time. I am suggesting there was no gov policy to revisit, what there was was a practice that had grown up seen at NHS Fife that was at detriment to all female staff.
That practice had crept in and you as a union did nothing about it.
NP - partnership happens at SWAG, do not agree RCN doing nothing. RCN suggested SWAG had a role to play.

She may have covered it here

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 07:09

Agreed, she might have nailed it on the head, the purpose of the union is to protect it's members from being discriminated against by their employer, and as NC points out the union did nothing about it.

Lets hope the judge caught it too.

Lacksie · Yesterday 07:58

Hedgehogforshort · 25/09/2026 12:55

Was this post meant for the Hampstead’s ponds thread?

No? It says in the OP that Dr U "claimed to be trans". What does claimed mean in this context?

Prestissimo · Yesterday 08:06

Lacksie · Yesterday 07:58

No? It says in the OP that Dr U "claimed to be trans". What does claimed mean in this context?

the OP replied to clarify this a few pages ago - simply that Dr Upton is male bodied but claims to have a female gender identity and therefore to be a transwoman. Nothing more or less than that. Simply the facts as we have them.

Prestissimo · Yesterday 08:07

Just caught up. Thanks to all for your stirling work yesterday. I’m feeling a bit more positive than after days 1 and 2 - lovely to ‘hear’ (read) NC in full flow.

borntobequiet · Yesterday 08:09

Lacksie · Yesterday 07:58

No? It says in the OP that Dr U "claimed to be trans". What does claimed mean in this context?

Well, later on, in evidence, he claimed to be a biological woman, using a form of logic peculiar to gender identitarians.

However, in this context, it means “he said he was a transwoman” (and, as such, entitled to use female changing rooms, engage in histrionics, and generally be a disruptive and difficult person).

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:09

Prestissimo · Yesterday 08:06

the OP replied to clarify this a few pages ago - simply that Dr Upton is male bodied but claims to have a female gender identity and therefore to be a transwoman. Nothing more or less than that. Simply the facts as we have them.

Thanks for answering.

Seems odd to question whether Dr U is trans or not given the set of facts that we have , and the fact that has never been a point of legal question- but ok!

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 08:11

You can only ever claim to be 'trans' because it's literally not physically possible for a human being to transition into anything.
Plus Upton didn't have a GRC so is not legally 'female'.

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:11

borntobequiet · Yesterday 08:09

Well, later on, in evidence, he claimed to be a biological woman, using a form of logic peculiar to gender identitarians.

However, in this context, it means “he said he was a transwoman” (and, as such, entitled to use female changing rooms, engage in histrionics, and generally be a disruptive and difficult person).

A "gender identitarian" ? Thats a new one I haven't heard before lol.

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:14

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 08:11

You can only ever claim to be 'trans' because it's literally not physically possible for a human being to transition into anything.
Plus Upton didn't have a GRC so is not legally 'female'.

Edited

Even - or in fact especially- if one starts from that assumption, the phraseology is distinctly odd. Would you call a Christian a person who "claims to be a christian" and then argue a person can only ever claim to be a Christian?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 08:22

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:14

Even - or in fact especially- if one starts from that assumption, the phraseology is distinctly odd. Would you call a Christian a person who "claims to be a christian" and then argue a person can only ever claim to be a Christian?

Yes, if I had to, I don't believe however that I would ever get into such a conversation myself, your example seems like a stretch.

SirChenjins · Yesterday 08:25

@Justabaker Purple, green and white already feature on the Progress flag - are the RCN going to relabel it the GC and LGBTQ+ flag? Imagine the reaction of the alphabettis if they did that 😂

borntobequiet · Yesterday 08:26

I certainly know people who claim to be Christian but who don’t demonstrate any Christian values or virtues.

However, making a big fuss about a form of words of little significance is at least a way of passing the time.

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:28

borntobequiet · Yesterday 08:26

I certainly know people who claim to be Christian but who don’t demonstrate any Christian values or virtues.

However, making a big fuss about a form of words of little significance is at least a way of passing the time.

Edited

So it was a way to signify that Dr U doesn't adhere to the usual practices/ values associated with being trans?

Seriestwo · Yesterday 08:28

@Lacksie - how would we know that Upton is definitively trans? What are the observable
measures?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 08:32

People who identify as Christian (insert any other religious identity) are only claiming to believe in the impossible.
People who identify as 'trans' are claiming to be the impossible.
Gender Identiarians are like the Christians (insert any other religious identity), they're claiming to believe in the impossible.

borntobequiet · Yesterday 08:34

Lacksie · Yesterday 08:28

So it was a way to signify that Dr U doesn't adhere to the usual practices/ values associated with being trans?

It wasn’t meant to signify anything other than that he said he was a transwoman. He certainly demonstrated all the performative, incoherent and unpleasant aspects of many such people.

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