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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

1000 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

OP posts:
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Helleofabore · 28/09/2026 18:53

CassOle · 28/09/2026 18:47

Dr Upton is medically trained. He knows full well that human beings cannot change sex.

Which makes the statement even more problematic.

Rollingpinofdoom · 28/09/2026 18:54

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:43

No , that was deeply meant, sincere and honest . DU is trans- speaking from a trans perspective

In that case, speaking from a woman’s perspective, males with a trans identity are men and DU is a narcissistic man who should never be allowed to treat anyone ever again, I mean this deeply, sincerely and honestly.

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:57

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/09/2026 18:48

So, just to be clear, as long as ones words are deeply meant, scincere and honest from ones own perspective, ones words cannot be criticised no matter how deeply offensive others may find them? Is it the same with actions, out of interest?

I didn't say DU's words can't be criticised, I said DU was not lying.

Lying "the act of making a statement or communicating information that a person believes to be false with the intent to deceive or mislead another person"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/09/2026 18:57

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:19

The tribunal cleared DU of all wrongdoing. the tribunal did not find Dr Upton dishonest, malicious, threatening or discriminatory towards Peggie; it found DU's account of the key confrontation more reliable and found DU responded entirely appropriately.

“The tribunal” was a total shitshow, hence the appeal. Upton is both dishonest and narcissistic imo. I saw him live.

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 19:00

Ok I'm going to stop commenting now as it's just inciting/ provoking further online abuse / bullying of a real , known person and I'm not ok with that.

"Online bullying, or cyberbullying, is the act of using digital technology, devices, or social media to send, post, or share harmful, negative, false or mean content about someone else, even when the targeted person is not present or actively engaged in the interaction".

www.stopbullying.gov/cyberbullying/what-is-it

murasaki · 28/09/2026 19:00

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:57

I didn't say DU's words can't be criticised, I said DU was not lying.

Lying "the act of making a statement or communicating information that a person believes to be false with the intent to deceive or mislead another person"

He's gone through med school. He KNOWS it to be false. What he chooses to pretend to himself is irrelevant, it's a lie, a falsehood, dishonest, a porky pie, anything else you want to call it.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/09/2026 19:02

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/09/2026 18:57

“The tribunal” was a total shitshow, hence the appeal. Upton is both dishonest and narcissistic imo. I saw him live.

It's quite something to see a poster so enamoured of both Upton and the judgment. 😂
Must admit, I didn't notice much praise coming from the legal profession following all the embarrassing errors, fake law etc it included.
Transactivists however.... 😅

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/09/2026 19:04

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:57

I didn't say DU's words can't be criticised, I said DU was not lying.

Lying "the act of making a statement or communicating information that a person believes to be false with the intent to deceive or mislead another person"

Hmmmmm.

I think whatever DU believes, we can safely say he understands very well that what he means by "biological woman" is not what most people understand by that phrase.

An intelligent person who is honest, sincere and fair, recognising this, would take pains to respect the difference and clarify what they mean and do not mean.

Especially, an intelligent person who is honest, sincere and fair would not admit he would have no qualms about leveraging this difference between the common understanding of a phrase and his own idiosyncratic use of the same words to mean something totally different and indeed opposite to the common usage to put his fucking hands on a woman who asked for a female doctor.

BlueLegume · 28/09/2026 19:06

@Lacksie we hear you on this thread and the Sandie Peggie thread. Your support for Dr Upton and trans people is kind.

However Dr Upton and any men saying they are women cannot in any way speak for me as a woman. Dr Upton and I cannot share the feelings or emotions of your first period/pregnancy/childbirth/miscarriage/abortion/menopause.

Women saying they are men cannot share the physical impact of testosterone surges experienced by my husband or sons.

These points are the reality.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/09/2026 19:07

He did it, in my opinion as a person observing, to prevent NC asking a clear question about women’s sex based rights.

Helleofabore · 28/09/2026 19:08

I see that any discussion that someone disagrees with now is just being described as bullying. Seems more like trying to shame women who are calling out a male doctors behaviour

BlueLegume · 28/09/2026 19:13

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 19:00

Ok I'm going to stop commenting now as it's just inciting/ provoking further online abuse / bullying of a real , known person and I'm not ok with that.

"Online bullying, or cyberbullying, is the act of using digital technology, devices, or social media to send, post, or share harmful, negative, false or mean content about someone else, even when the targeted person is not present or actively engaged in the interaction".

www.stopbullying.gov/cyberbullying/what-is-it

Edited

@Lacksie no one is bullying anyone. Sometimes opinions differ. Neither side is necessarily the bully. You are clearly very passionate about trans inclusivity and support. As I have said you are clearly a decent person.

Some of us are just very jaded at having lived through the 60s/70s and 80s and having been exposed to sexism and unpleasant experiences at the hands of men. We are now jaded that some men think donning woman face gives them rights over and above those our grand mothers and great grand mothers fought for.

No bullying just probably tired women saying no.

CassOle · 28/09/2026 19:15

I deeply, sincerely and honestly believe that it is unkind to enable delusions and lie to people about material reality.

It is biologically impossible for mammals to change sex. Lying and pretending that they can helps no-one, including those who identify as trans.

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 19:19

BlueLegume · 28/09/2026 19:06

@Lacksie we hear you on this thread and the Sandie Peggie thread. Your support for Dr Upton and trans people is kind.

However Dr Upton and any men saying they are women cannot in any way speak for me as a woman. Dr Upton and I cannot share the feelings or emotions of your first period/pregnancy/childbirth/miscarriage/abortion/menopause.

Women saying they are men cannot share the physical impact of testosterone surges experienced by my husband or sons.

These points are the reality.

I disagree with you but also can see that you are a really decent person. I'm really grateful for that as sometimes it's hard to recognise that about someone through a keyboard especially when you disagree with them so fundamentally about an emotive topic.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 28/09/2026 19:31

When anyone, least of all a doctor or scientist, says that as a natal male not only do they ID as a trans woman, but a <biological female>, women say that's not possible, and there's no common ground, well then we've gone from a difference in opinion to people not speaking the same language, not even agreeing on the laws of physics.
Added to the inability to see eye to eye when concepts like the woman category being a social construct are mooted, then there's nowhere to go.
No common ground, concepts, laws, or reality.
Just nebulous tit for tat on who's bullying who.

OP posts:
GailBlancheViola · 28/09/2026 19:33

However Dr Upton and any men saying they are women cannot in any way speak for me as a woman.

You disagree with this @Lacksie ? You think men however they identify are entitled to speak for women?

Rollingpinofdoom · 28/09/2026 19:38

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:57

I didn't say DU's words can't be criticised, I said DU was not lying.

Lying "the act of making a statement or communicating information that a person believes to be false with the intent to deceive or mislead another person"

so yu must admit I am not lying then. None of my words were false or misleading.

Rollingpinofdoom · 28/09/2026 19:40

Helleofabore · 28/09/2026 19:08

I see that any discussion that someone disagrees with now is just being described as bullying. Seems more like trying to shame women who are calling out a male doctors behaviour

But in that case as @Lacksie is disagreeing with me, I may say that they are bullying me…

Shedmistress · 28/09/2026 20:57

If Upton truly thought he was a woman why did he need to secure permission to use the women's changing rooms? And why take notes about women who waited until he'd left?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 28/09/2026 22:47

Missey85 · 28/09/2026 12:52

I've got a fun question you all like to moan about men in women's loos but what about trans women are they allowed in men's toilets 🤷 😂

Yes.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 28/09/2026 22:51

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 14:01

i was objecting to online abuse of a real , identifiable individual.

That isn't "policing language" it's objecting to how language is being used to bully a person online. I stand by my right to object to / call out online abuse without being shamed annd ridiculed into silence.

Furthwrmore, please note, I have never objected to anyone "policing my language" I was merely pointing out the absurdity of using evidence of someone doing that to me as evidence that I was doing it to them! Utterly ridiculous.

Re- write my posts- an away why should I care?- but please don't abuse real, identifiable individuals online.

Edited

Trump is an orange idiot.

murasaki · 28/09/2026 22:59

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 28/09/2026 22:51

Trump is an orange idiot.

Ooh, you massive bully!

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 28/09/2026 23:01

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:43

No , that was deeply meant, sincere and honest . DU is trans- speaking from a trans perspective

Are you DU?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/09/2026 00:53

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 28/09/2026 23:01

Are you DU?

Or BU 😂

Can't believe I only just twigged the fragrant doctor's initials are BU!

ElenOfTheWays · 29/09/2026 01:38

Lacksie · 28/09/2026 18:43

No , that was deeply meant, sincere and honest . DU is trans- speaking from a trans perspective

Well I deeply, sincerely and honestly believe that Dr U is a sexist pig.
As a woman speaking from a woman's perspective.

So that's all right then.

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