Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

[13RidgmontRoad]

For those who don't know DWH, it's an informal mainly Instagram-promoted event and the organisers, two women in their 20s, arrange (relatively accessible) hikes in locations mainly in SE England. Cost to join is £2 a ticket. Yesterday was the first one I've been on, which was 17 miles (Newhaven to Brighton). Around 130 people attended.

There were 5-6 TW on the hike that I could see; two older chaps, one in a dress and heavy makeup, the other looking very much just like a bloke in men's clothing. Four younger ones who looked like the wind might blow them away.

Older blokey one was very annoying - lots of mansplaining on the Whatsapp group, selfies and borderline inappropriate jokes, generally ignored.

Two of the younger ones peeled off about halfway through as they couldn't cope with the rest of the distance. Remaining younger ones were a couple and kept themselves to themselves. They were rather timid and socially awkward, which was a bit of a contrast to 130 hale and hearty lesbians in hiking boots.

I felt like most of the women there just gave the lot of them a wide berth - bit of polite chat then forward or back to join other women.

The (lovely) organisers are quite young and there's absolutely no way either of them would come out and bar TW. I imagine they'd be terrified to take a view. So it seemed very much like weary acceptance. It was rather interesting to observe.

Oh like when TIM use women’s spaces inappropriately? Gotcha.

I am not comfortable with this. After I was assaulted my therapist suggested joining an all women's social group to help me get out more without getting constantly triggered.

A women's walking group would be ideal, but just don't exist as far as I know.

When those who are visibly men join women's groups that's gone.

It's also extremely self centred of them. They could join an LGBT or mixed group of which there are plenty.

I don't claim I always know who is a trans woman. If it was someone not obvious I wouldn't necessarily care especially if they were there with someone else. It's those thinking they have the right to be there who are the issue.

Why are you acting surprised to hear that? You know full well that is the case. This faux outrage is bizarre. This part of MN literally exists because some people essentally believe this.

A hiking group? I'd find it bizarre but crack on!

Well in this case, the group make it clear that TW are more welcome than GC women, so it would be the OP turning up somewhere she knew wasn't for people like her.

This is a LGBTQ group. It says it in the description of the group.

We’re not just talking about this group. Do try to keep up dear.

But if the OP identifies as a lesbian surely the group is for her?? You seem very gatekeepy

We are on this thread. We are talking about any group that makes it clear they are inclusive of trans people like this group blatantly do.

The quoted words are the exactly terminology that is used by all their groups. So it did in fact use that sort of terminology.

Believe me - there are many of us trying!

FWR was set up because men wanted to attack women’s single sex spaces? Just when I thought I couldn’t love the place more.

Not if she doesn't believe in inclusion of trans people or self identification as this group clearly do. It isnt for GC lesbians who feel aggrieved, threatened or offended by the presence of trans women in such a space.

Honestly, will you just pull yourself together. You're trying to argue that hiking trails should be single sex spaces. Good god.

Not only because "men" want to be in women's spaces, but because lots of women have fought very hard for their inclusion in such spaces. Biological women are trans women's fiercest allies.

More a flood protection than a drainage ditch.

So why call it a Dyke event then if any man can just turn up?

This is an LGBT+ group - explicitly so and set up with that purpose by inclusive lesbians. And very popular by all measures. There is a single sex only hiking group too - who could do with some more members so you could always join that one? Or set up your own.

Because the lesbians that set it up believe TW can be dykes. Simple as that.

Because the lesbians who organise it - as the Dykes Who Hike - wanted to? Do they need your permission? Are you a lesbian?

There always gonna be some idiots in a group. Some women opposed the suffragettes getting the vote? Some women campaign against abortion. So by your logic, the groups of women fighting to stop abortions are also doing the right thing? All these groups campaigned to give away women’s rights. Are they all correct to do so? If not, why not?

Ah, so it’s only for some lesbians then?

Cos words can mean anything, and specifically words that refer to women can mean anything including 'including men'.🙄

If it's not a group for lesbians, why can't they be honest and call it something else?

I imagine lesbians who don't wish to hike wouldn't want to go tbh.

Their info definitely says anyone gay, bi, trans, etc, etc. Why wouldn't you expect to find all those people on a hike, some weren't very athletic or you didn't like, so what.