Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

[13RidgmontRoad]

For those who don't know DWH, it's an informal mainly Instagram-promoted event and the organisers, two women in their 20s, arrange (relatively accessible) hikes in locations mainly in SE England. Cost to join is £2 a ticket. Yesterday was the first one I've been on, which was 17 miles (Newhaven to Brighton). Around 130 people attended.

There were 5-6 TW on the hike that I could see; two older chaps, one in a dress and heavy makeup, the other looking very much just like a bloke in men's clothing. Four younger ones who looked like the wind might blow them away.

Older blokey one was very annoying - lots of mansplaining on the Whatsapp group, selfies and borderline inappropriate jokes, generally ignored.

Two of the younger ones peeled off about halfway through as they couldn't cope with the rest of the distance. Remaining younger ones were a couple and kept themselves to themselves. They were rather timid and socially awkward, which was a bit of a contrast to 130 hale and hearty lesbians in hiking boots.

I felt like most of the women there just gave the lot of them a wide berth - bit of polite chat then forward or back to join other women.

The (lovely) organisers are quite young and there's absolutely no way either of them would come out and bar TW. I imagine they'd be terrified to take a view. So it seemed very much like weary acceptance. It was rather interesting to observe.

Also, still noting the failure to deal with anything else in that post. And also that language apparently now is a "hill to die on". Interesting.

Sure. Golf widows have done this - https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/36734/pdf/

Why don't you start a new thread telling them how wrong they are?

Would be a better use of your time than this frantic skipping from thread to thread snarking at people.

“Trans Widows are women, (usually heterosexual) whose male partner or husband believes
that they have a gender identity other than “man” or who cross dresses, and who as a result
have either left, or wish to leave the relationship.
Women in this situation report feeling like their male partner has died. This is particularly the
case if their partner or husband decides to transition. The transformation is usually so
complete that their partner is unrecognisable as the man they married, both in looks and in
personality. The woman will be forbidden from calling her husband by his previous “dead
name”.
The term “Trans Widow” provides an analogy which helps women to describe and identify
their experience.”

its a metaphor. Its not up to you or anyone else to police their language.

I'll decide on the best use of my time, but thank you for your comment. Sorry if you're incapable of holding more than one thought in your mind at once.

"its a metaphor. Its not up to you or anyone else to police their language."

Cool. So trans women are women, yes?

Well no, they aren’t, but I can’t stop them calling themselves that, can I? And they are claiming they actually are women, as has been pointed out repeatedly.

You're welcome, I hope my comment helped.

I am far from incapable of holding more than one thought in my head. I just recognise a derailer when I see one.

I think someone is confusing metaphor with simile.

Probably me tbh 😂

I didn't mean you! Alcove seems to think they are saying they are widows rather than they are like. Now she may disagree but that doesn't make her right necessarily.

I don't want to pile on a poster who may be genuinely distressed, no matter how - targetted - that distress seems to be.

I do wonder whether she finds the phase "dead name" as offensive as trans widow though, and if not why not?

How do you know that unless you're policing their language?

It is another useful post for my collection of posts to refer to when women on FWR are accused of being nasty and agressive though.

How do I know what? That they aren’t women? It’s not hard.

No. I find it tasteless but it refers to them and not others so I don't really care. It is their dead name. To be a widow is not something I would wish on anyone else - even the people taking great delight in telling me that I'm unreasonable for feeling this way - but it is something that happens to you. To be a widow is to simply have your husband die. That is it - nothing else. Nothing compares to it.

How do you know their not widows? Because their husbands are alive.

So you don't disapprove of the word dead seeing as how they are not in fact dead?

I didn’t say they were widows 🤷‍♀️ it’s an analogy, like they quite clearly say in the government consultation response you linked. If men being women was just an analogy, actual women wouldn’t be expected to accommodate it.

But if they say they're now wives, then....

Was that not clear?

Are their husbands dead?

Good then! We're agreed. They aren't widows.

Yes, we are agreed! Hurray. They choose to describe themselves using an analogy that makes sense to them. It’s not really about anyone else.

For the record, I consider the phrases gravy boat, blue sky thinking, pork pie hat and saving for a rainy day to be entirely legitimate despite not in fact being materially true.

However, were someone to expect me to sail in a gravy boat, spend a meeting imagining nothing but sky, wear a pork pie on my head or not allow me to spend my savings on a sunny day, I would likely change my position on this.

This does not make me a hypocrite, it makes me consistent. And incidentally, rational.

And if TWAW was being used metaphorically and not as a lever to get male people access to female-only spaces or undefine female people as a meaningful social, legal and political group, I would not consider it an existential threat to women's rights. However I would still object to the phrase simply because it would be as sexist as the phrases "run like a girl" or "cry like a little bitch".