Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

[13RidgmontRoad]

For those who don't know DWH, it's an informal mainly Instagram-promoted event and the organisers, two women in their 20s, arrange (relatively accessible) hikes in locations mainly in SE England. Cost to join is £2 a ticket. Yesterday was the first one I've been on, which was 17 miles (Newhaven to Brighton). Around 130 people attended.

There were 5-6 TW on the hike that I could see; two older chaps, one in a dress and heavy makeup, the other looking very much just like a bloke in men's clothing. Four younger ones who looked like the wind might blow them away.

Older blokey one was very annoying - lots of mansplaining on the Whatsapp group, selfies and borderline inappropriate jokes, generally ignored.

Two of the younger ones peeled off about halfway through as they couldn't cope with the rest of the distance. Remaining younger ones were a couple and kept themselves to themselves. They were rather timid and socially awkward, which was a bit of a contrast to 130 hale and hearty lesbians in hiking boots.

I felt like most of the women there just gave the lot of them a wide berth - bit of polite chat then forward or back to join other women.

The (lovely) organisers are quite young and there's absolutely no way either of them would come out and bar TW. I imagine they'd be terrified to take a view. So it seemed very much like weary acceptance. It was rather interesting to observe.

Trans widows are not saying they are literal widows. Do you understand what a metaphor is?

Like 'hill to die on'?

You know nothing about me. I don't share personal details on FWR because there's some very dangerous angry men out there. But if I did share personal details, fuck me you'd be ashamed right now.

If you have lost a spouse, I am truly very sorry for your loss. But it doesn't give you the right to leverage that into shaming or silencing women dealing with their own pain, which may not include bereavement but may include the horror of the man they believed they married becoming their abuser.

Go complain at the women joking about being golf widows if you feel widowhood isn't taken seriously enough.

And noted that you are still dodging everything else I said. Because you know damn well you can't justify your position.

Women are half of humanity and I think we matter enough to at least have a fucking name!

That is a really nasty and ignorant thing to say about women whose partners have decided they are trans in midlife and have consequently suffered pain, grief, frequently financial, sexual and coercive abuse. I don’t suppose you have even looked into their testimonies. You seem blinded by this ideology and truly believe that transwomen can do no wrong and are all delightful people.
I am sorry you have lost your partner, but your lack of empathy for their experiences really disgusts me.

They have very successful groups across the country. Why would they be accidentally lost if they joined a similar inclusive group? The OP wasn't 'accidentally lost' despite having a clear disrespect for the whole ethos of the group she so desperately wanted to join? Perhaps they're not so awful after all.

Is that what the trans widows are arguing? I don’t think it is

i don’t think they’re turning up to support groups for the bereaved or demanding Bereavement Support Payments either

your accusations of hypocrisy would make a heck of a lot more sense if they were doing these things

you really do come across as dreadfully unhappy. I can’t believe that speaking to people like this on the internet is bringing you any joy

on which note, time for me to head for bed I think

I had some lavender and blueberry ice cream in Italy, it is a thing. It was delicious!

They are not widows. While they call themselves such - I really couldn't care less about them. They have not suffered the loss that is anything approaching what women like me and families like mine have suffered and how dare you suggest otherwise. It is incomparable.

Except the women who call themselves trans widows have frequently been victims of horrendous domestic abuse. You can read about it on their support threads here. Nice that you feel able to belittle it though. Guess it speaks to your character.

Nice. You couldn't care less about traumatised women.

Obviously we are all sorry for your loss, but that was callous. It's not a race to the bottom.

I seem to remember another thread today where a different poster was claiming people with opposing views weren't able to speak. These last few posts show they very much can, even if maybe they should think first.

So sorry the first woman to mention it reduced him to my 'partner'. He was my husband, the father to my children. I have no intention of being kind to women who use their trauma to co-opt something that isn't theirs. For a bunch of people who get so annoyed when trans women call themselves women - you'd think you could be consistent.

“Trans women” are men. No one is claiming that a trans widow’s husband has actually died, it’s a metaphor.

"Desperately" now? Is that accurate language, or yet more hyperbole?

I read her post as 90% enjoying the hiking and 10% interested in the dynamic that a group thst purportedly believes TWAW didn't seem to fully embody that, nothing else. Given this is FWR she thought we'd be interested in her observations on gender. For all we know she's happily posting on a hiking forum about how the hike went as well.

Despite the fevered imaging of Genderists, Gender Critical Feminists don't spend our lives avoiding trans people.

We just don't think it's reasonable to accomodate their personalities as some sort of ersatz members of the opposite sex based on some sort of sexist ideas about what personality is right for each sex.

It is a fucking metaphor.

Why don’t you read some of their testimonies? Instead of getting angry about a metaphorical use of a word they are using to express the depth of their pain and loss.

Pain and loss can take many forms, it is not a competition.

Interestingly I just looked up the etymology of widow. The proto indo european root is:

• h₁widʰéwhā, meaning "to be empty"* or "deprived." 1, 2]

I'd say transwidows are deprived of the marriage they thought they had and their history as it is rewritten by the new 'woman' and so are their children.

It's not an appropriate one. They are not widows. Their pain and loss is not comparable.

You can’t know what someone else’s pain is like. I am sorry for your loss but you cannot arbitrate on everyone else’s experiences and use your own grief to silence other people’s suffering.

Well said.

You don't know that, it's not a quantifiable thing you can measure one against the other.

They are not widows. Trying to co-opt the reality of losing a husband is shameless and shameful. They should be ashamed of what they're doing. They can get another word.

If trans widows were demanding bereavement leave, filing in official forms as widows, being interviewed on tv as widows or attempting to claim inheritance of their husbands' estates, or indeed referring to themselves as actual widows in any way you would have a point and I would agree that is fucking outrageous.

But they aren't.

Trans women, by contrast, are claiming their use of the word woman makes them actual women, with all the same rights and access to women-only spaces, and taking women-only roles, and being interviewed as women. Simply because of an appropriated name.

See the difference?

They are not widows. The rest doesn't matter. They claim to feel like their partners have died - they are talking shite. They have no idea what that feels like because they are not widows.

You mean golf widows, yes?

But it's fine for them to? They demand the Government recognise them because they 'feel' like their husbands have died? When he's alive. Very much the opposite of being a widow. They may be abuse survivors, they may have been dumped - they are not widows.