Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

[13RidgmontRoad]

For those who don't know DWH, it's an informal mainly Instagram-promoted event and the organisers, two women in their 20s, arrange (relatively accessible) hikes in locations mainly in SE England. Cost to join is £2 a ticket. Yesterday was the first one I've been on, which was 17 miles (Newhaven to Brighton). Around 130 people attended.

There were 5-6 TW on the hike that I could see; two older chaps, one in a dress and heavy makeup, the other looking very much just like a bloke in men's clothing. Four younger ones who looked like the wind might blow them away.

Older blokey one was very annoying - lots of mansplaining on the Whatsapp group, selfies and borderline inappropriate jokes, generally ignored.

Two of the younger ones peeled off about halfway through as they couldn't cope with the rest of the distance. Remaining younger ones were a couple and kept themselves to themselves. They were rather timid and socially awkward, which was a bit of a contrast to 130 hale and hearty lesbians in hiking boots.

I felt like most of the women there just gave the lot of them a wide berth - bit of polite chat then forward or back to join other women.

The (lovely) organisers are quite young and there's absolutely no way either of them would come out and bar TW. I imagine they'd be terrified to take a view. So it seemed very much like weary acceptance. It was rather interesting to observe.

Positively menacing! 😁

@Lexibletheflexible Lesbians on the whole arent into excluding trans women from their spaces.

I must have missed the meeting where you were elected lesbian spokesperson.

Quite.

So out of 130 lesbians, you were the only butch lesbian and there were no TM?

Just going by stats. Straight women are the ones least likely to see TWAW.

Do your bestest reading of the group's instagram page.

No. Generally, people are encouraged to keep their discriminatory views to themselves..especially at someone else's party.

I don't use Instagram

You're saying that lesbians excluding males is discriminatory.

That's quite offensive.

It sounds more like an association to me, not a service. Perfectly legal to set up an association for one or more protected characteristics eg female homosexuals.

Unless they are sexist views like TWAW, in which case fill yer boots! Sound off in social settings, on social media, in parliament, in hospitals, at work, anywhere you feel like it!

And if female people feel degraded or belittled being reduced from the female half of society in all our diversity to a type of self defined personality .... fuck 'em, who cares!

That isn't the same as what you said, which was Lesbians on the whole arent into excluding trans women from their spaces.
Either way, do you have some polling data?

Lots of misunderstanding of the law on this thread. It absolutely is legal to set up a group for people from multiple protected characteristics (so you can have a combo of sex, gender reassignment and sexuality). You are free to call the group whatever you want as long as the membership criteria is clear elsewhere.

There was a really informative thread on here about it and how it related to girl guides policies. Take a look at this guidance: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/2026/EHRC_Code_of_practice_for_services_public_functions_and_associations.pdf

Specifically 12.75 which says:

An association may therefore restrict membership to people who: (a) share one protected characteristic (for example women) (b) share more than one protected characteristic (for example Muslim women) (c) have any of more than one protected characteristic (for example lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans people).

And an example of naming here

12.67 The constitution of an association called the Black Jazz Players Club states that all members must have national origins in Africa or the Caribbean. Despite the use of ‘Black’ in its name, because the restrictions on membership of the association are based on national origins and not colour, these restrictions would not be unlawful.

Im saying that going to someone else's event where they want TW present to argue that you don't is odd and antagonistic

I tell you what we can use to poll... the GC hiking group. How many people were at their last hike vs the inclusive hike?

You referred to stats, can you link to them?

Weak answer. Let's see some stats. You are very confident in your assertions. You must have data to back them up, no?

https://justlikeus.org/trans-day-of-visibility-ally-lesbian/

"Of all LGBT+ identities, other than trans and non-binary people themselves, lesbian young adults were most likely to say they know a trans person (92%), and most likely to say they are “supportive” or “very supportive” of trans people (96%)."

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/17/opinion-lesbians-stand-with-trans-people/

Here another(?) survey makes it clear that they surveyed biological women who are homosexual.

Women generally are the biggest advocates of trans women and fight hard to have them included. They will boycott places that exclude them. It's thanks to women that trans rights have progressed so far as they've been in such great support of their visibility and presence. Women just like you and me.

Waiting for "buh dasss not weel wesearches"

Here is the survey spoken about in that pink news article.

https://x.com/YouGov/status/1689933980441718784/photo/1

It's not an association - it has no membership requirement and no rules governing admission so it doesn't meet the requirements of s.107(2).

This would be relevant if the hiking group were an association for the purposes of the Equality Act, which it is not.

There have been some interesting conversations among equality lawyers around this, in particular associations where the members have one of two or more PCs. Iirc, one school of thought is that human rights law would favour wide leeway being given to associations. However, another school of thought is concerned that it would, in theory, be possible to define a group in such a way that a particular ethnicity or religion is excluded.

I'd suggest a nice sit down and a cup of tea.

Why post it if it's not real research?