My work insisting I refer to a 9 year old as they/them

[TheMadGardener]

I work in a British primary school. Just started new term. Long standing pupil, a girl, is starting Year 5 now so she is 9 years old. No issues until now although parents are quite "alternative/new age."

Headteacher has informed staff that according to the child and her parents this girl has decided to be non-binary. Staff are now to refer to her as they/them and she is now using a gender-neutral shortened version of her name (think Alex instead of Alexandra or Jo instead of Joanna).

I am extremely uncomfortable with this and will definitely not be using they/them - I will be referring to the child by her chosen abbreviation to avoid using pronouns (at least it's a shortening of her real name rather than a made-up name).

Serious question: I thought new legislation discouraged schools from getting on board with this sort of thing? Or is it only they can't let children do it without parents knowing?

I'm finding it very hard to keep my mouth shut on my actual opinions in the presence of headteacher. (Colleagues I've spoken to on the quiet all think it is bullshit too)

In many cases, perhaps even most cases, it’s a woeful lack of parenting skills and educator gumption. It’s OK to say “No” to a child. It’s OK to say “No” to the parents. It’s OK to have boundaries.

They're non-binary, and don't need abusive adults trying to get one over on them or telling them how they feel.

Your inability to accept them is very much your problem.

They're a 9 year old child surrounded by adults unable or refusing to safeguard them. Thinking you don't have a sex is an adult delusion or belief.

No 9 year old child should be caught up in this until they've been allowed to mature and develop the critical thinking skills, the confidence and resilience to defend themselves against adult gaslighting and to make informed decisions about their future.

Safeguarding children is what all reasonable adults do. We're in this mess as children's safety is seen as expendable by trans extremists who spend their time trying to bully others out of safeguarding children. .

And non-binary means...?

The way grown adult humans are feasting on details of this child - someone incredibly vulnerable in school and very young - is horrifying, and it enables violence against children like them.

There's more posts about them than virtually any other topic. Because who cares about women being drug-raped, groomed, assaulted and abused when you can shit on a minority child. So much more fun.

They're nine years old.

Is it at all possible to you that a nine year old, who most likely hasn't even begun to reach puberty yet, might not be making a fully informed decision about their gender identity?

"Abusive" is an astonishing thing to say and really undermines the seriousness what that word actually means as well as disrespecting victims.

It's why, in the real world, trans and nb children are suicidal. Bullying, vicious adults who won't leave them alone or stop sexualising them, whose greatest wish is to see them hurt for the crime of existence.

Your comments are wrong and disgusting. I'm sure you must know that. If you don't there is something seriously wrong with you.

I'm sure you will be relieved to hear that nobody has been able to find any link between use of sexed pronouns and incidents of childhood suicide.

Nobody on this thread is suggesting bullying this child, and there is no suggestion that the child is being sexualised.

It is however harmful to suggest to a child that they should be suicidal in some circumstances. That really does tip into abuse.

I'm the mother of a young trans man, and know how he was impacted by violent transphobia in school. The kind enables by online bigotry.

That is the reason trans/nb kids are suicidal.

The violence, harassment. Almost all of it sexual. Being told "it doesn't count if we touch you".

The dehumanisation and sexualisation of trans/nb people affects children most of all. Generally, one or two kids per school are trans/nb, and they get the full force of this adult-enabled violence.

Unless this relentless demonisation stops, a whole generation of trans/nb kids will emerge from school as traumatised as mine. None of it was his fault. Boys assumed he was a sexual deviant (at 13!) and demanded anal sex from him. They tried repeatedly to harm him.

He was repeatedly told (despite being a trans boy) that he hated women and was a predator. Despite being a four-foot nothing, shy, quiet kid who didn't have a boyfriend, he was relentlessly treated like a sex object. Girls would recite terf talking points at him in class while boys threatened him with sexual violence.

Labelling a child turning up to school as themselves abuse, is pure evil.

Acceptance of difference is something adults are meant to model for children ffs.

Hateful transphobia against kids is treated like a fun discussion topic on here. It's repulsive, and is impacting real children, right now. Including the poor kid so many on here are determined to take apart.

The kind enables by online bigotry.

So he was bullied by people who posted on Mumsnet?

That is the reason trans/nb kids are suicidal.

Except, and again you should be so relieved about this, there is no clear link to actual incidents of suicide.

The violence, harassment. Almost all of it sexual. Being told "it doesn't count if we touch you".

And you think this will happen to a child because....?

The dehumanisation and sexualisation of trans/nb people affects children most of all. Generally, one or two kids per school are trans/nb, and they get the full force of this adult-enabled violence.

Dehumanising and sexualising children is obviously wrong, it's one of the reasons that it's wrong to impose gender categories on anyone. Just treat people as individuals who happen to be a particular sex.

Girls would recite terf talking points

This is stretching credibility. You seem to assume that nobody else on this board has experience of schools, children or children who identify as trans.

Acceptance of difference is something adults are meant to model for children

Absolutely. Telling them that there is a right and wrong way to be male or female is not accepting difference.

Hateful transphobia against kids is treated like a fun discussion topic on here. It's repulsive, and is impacting real children, right now. Including the poor kid so many on here are determined to take apart.

Not evidenced by the actual thread. Imagining hate where there is none does not do anyone any good.

And you think these 13 year old boys are avid readers of Mumsnet do you?

Long-time users of this board know that it is sometimes used as a source of therapy.

A safe space, so to speak. Ironically.

Non-binary isn’t a thing. It’s a made up 1st world problem. So they can’t be.

if they’re dug up in 1000 years, unless they’ve gone to the trouble of being buried with a plaque that says “whilst my bones and DNA might say I’m female, I decided to pretend to not be”, they’ll be confirmed as female….

The sooner we return to reality and focus on real problems the better.

I think you’re grossly missing the point.

I’ve read most of this thread and I don’t recall seeing any comments that are transphobic (admittedly there are some that have been deleted which may have been, I don’t know. Even if they were they were in the minority).

The majority of comments have been along the lines of:

1. the girl can believe what they want, but their parents + head can force others to believe it and pretend as if it’s true. This isn’t transphobia. This is treating everyone equally: given everyone the right the believe what they want but not force their beliefs on others
2. care for the child on the basis that most believe they are too young to make informed decisions and thus need supported and nurtured to best understand themselves and the world rather than encouraged or enabled on a path that, as you point out, comes with possible issues

It’s you that is being hateful and phobic of others that hold a different opinion to your own. In a mature democratic society we need to allow voices and respect different and debate. That silence opinions purely because of a group loudly shouting victim and finding offence where it doesn’t exist in lieu of putting forward reasoned arguments and respecting the views of others.

From experience, I'd say that TPA doesn't care about 'the point', you could post about just about anything and you'd get the same high-octane response, with a predicable list of insults like 'hateful' and 'bigoted' and 'repulsive'.

I've lost count of the number of thoughtful, careful, humane posts [some by myself] that have been met with a blast of predictable, missing-the-point TPA hyperbole.
For instance, posts that are entirely centred on the rights and entitlements and well-being of the child in question, are characterised as cruel and even abusive - the mirror image of what the posters actually said.

It's all a bit samey and predictable, so not effective. But it is also offensive and insulting, so I think it deserves to be called out rather than eye-rolled at.

I agree. She does a disservice to those whose corner she proffers to be in. Ironically I suspect she would consider herself a liberal whilst having very anti-liberal practices like shouting down anyone who disagrees with her, labelling others rather than debating the facts, and not allowing others the privilege of freedom of conscious, open debate, or accepting of their views unless of course they align with her own.

@JellySaurus it took teachers by surprise. The early small numbers initially went past us a bit. Remember, teachers aren’t supposed to express a political point of view. That said, it was on the syllabus I taught that I had to teach Judith Butler and Foucault. Not that you express an opinion as to whether you agree with them or not. Did teachers being unable to express their opinion look like a tacit agreement? I honestly do not know.

Hey @ExpectMore , do you believe that there’s never been a person who has transitioned or become nb who was in the wrong body. Edited because I pressed send too soon,

@TransParentlyAnnoyed I’m sorry for all you and your DS have faced. I hope yours and their future is better. Schools can be brutal places.

Yes, teachers were shackled by the concept that gender identity was a political issue rather than a behavioural issue or a mental health issue. Neutrality might have looked like tacit agreement, but enthusiastic embracing of the ideology - often dictated by senior management - definitely was tacit agreement and explicit teaching of ideology as fact. I can understand teachers afraid for their jobs, afraid to go against the dictats of senior management. But I cannot understand senior management’s spinelessness.

What do you mean by 'in the wrong body'?

Hmm. No. How can someone logically be in the wrong body?

It’s no more real than someone believing they should’ve been born the pope or a mongoose.