My work insisting I refer to a 9 year old as they/them

[TheMadGardener]

I work in a British primary school. Just started new term. Long standing pupil, a girl, is starting Year 5 now so she is 9 years old. No issues until now although parents are quite "alternative/new age."

Headteacher has informed staff that according to the child and her parents this girl has decided to be non-binary. Staff are now to refer to her as they/them and she is now using a gender-neutral shortened version of her name (think Alex instead of Alexandra or Jo instead of Joanna).

I am extremely uncomfortable with this and will definitely not be using they/them - I will be referring to the child by her chosen abbreviation to avoid using pronouns (at least it's a shortening of her real name rather than a made-up name).

Serious question: I thought new legislation discouraged schools from getting on board with this sort of thing? Or is it only they can't let children do it without parents knowing?

I'm finding it very hard to keep my mouth shut on my actual opinions in the presence of headteacher. (Colleagues I've spoken to on the quiet all think it is bullshit too)

That line in RSE guidelines is important as it is not a fact that everyone has a gender identity. It is a belief that some people hold.

Those people who hold that belief, do not agree with gender stereotypes, and that is where Non Binary comes from.

It all rests on the consumerist idea that we have a gender (stereotype) identity.

We only have that if we subscribe to the idea of gender stereotypes.

Sex is physiological and there are clear biological differences which can be stereotyped but there are always going to be individuals who fall outside this. Because we are a very diverse species.

I'm supportive of parents bringing their children up to believe in things that I don't. However, I draw the line where a) it puts the child at risk of harm and b) the parents don't teach the child that it's ok that not everyone shares their belief.

For example on point a:

A Jehovah's witness won't accept blood transfusions. In cases where a child needs a blood transfusion for life-saving treatment, the court can and does step in to override the child's wishes.

Some religious extremists recruit impressionable children and young people to take part in attacks in the name of their religion. Thankfully Prevent exists to stop this happening.

On point b:

A Jehovah's witness will teach their child that Christmas and birthdays aren't celebrated. They will hopefully not teach their child that they should stop anyone else from doing so.

Some religious parents except girls/women to cover their hair e.g. hijab (from puberty for Muslims who follow this practice) or a wig (from marriage for Orthodox Jews). They will hopefully not teach their children that they should push for all girls/women to do this.

With gender identity, the belief becomes extremist very quickly.

On point a:

If children aren't taught about biological sex in line with the RSE guidance, they don't have a solid foundation upon which to base their understanding about their body (and how and why it will change during puberty) and why it's OK to be a girl who prefers football to dolls or a boy who prefers dancing to rough play. Challenging stereotypes becomes impossible if the child interprets a preference or dislike for something as evidence that their body does not match who they are.

On point b:

It would be great if gender identity believers taught their children that not everyone believes that we all have a gender identity and that this is OK. That someone using sex-based pronouns or not using any third person pronouns isn't a sign that they want to harm trans/nb-identifying people but instead simply means that they don't share this belief.

TBF I suspect there will be parents in all the examples above that teach their children that anyone who doesn't share their belief is wrong and should be "corrected" or shunned as inferior. Where gender identity differs from the rest is that the others have guardrails in place in the social contract of British society. Instead with gender identity, the social contract expects us to adopt this belief and all its tenets - although thankfully this is changing and increasingly people are saying no.

Great response to the roaring fury of a transactivist.

"Leave children alone. Put transsexualism back where it belongs. For adults only".

We can't repeat this often enough. Children are emotionally and intellectually too young to have the critical thinking necessary to navigate all the niche aspects of sex change or non binary pretence.

If only extreme transactivists had stayed away from children, they'd be so much safer. But here we are, on a parenting site, having to explain to adults that fantasy about gender identity, adult fetish and coercive control of others shouldn't be anywhere near children.

Whenever we're discussing so-called 'trans or nonbinary children', I think it's worth remembering where the idea of the trans child came from.

30 or 40 years ago, some people researching the experiences of (male) transsexuals found that they often had poor mental health. It was thought that this was because they didn't 'pass' as female due to having gone through puberty leaving them with such male traits as a deep voice, facial hair and strongly masculinised features. Then someone had the idea that if they could identify which children would grow up to be transsexuals as adults they could block puberty in those children which might mean that they would pass better as female as adults.

And so the trans child was born.

This had the added advantage for adult male transsexuals that people could now be led to believe that transsexualism is a natural and normal state for people of all ages (including small children) and nothing to do with adult fetishes.

We need to keep reminding ourselves that trans children were invented for these reasons, and not because there is anything innate which makes a child trans.

Like women are expected to be service humans for men.

👏 on finding the rabbit hole

Indeed.
And all 8 billion of us are either male or female. There will be huge differences between different individual males and between different individual females.
But every person who has ever been born has been created from a male and a female gamete and born of a female.
We are all, at population level, absolutely ordinary, and pretending to a child that she is 'non-binary' when she is, like all the other 8 billion people on the planet, perfectly normal and ordinary, is such a silly, adult-led, navel-gazing nonsense.

I don’t think that’s technically true. FWIW

Which bit isn’t true?

I’d like to know that too.

It seems totally accurate to me

I am happy to be told how I could have better phrased it. And I certainly accept that to keep the post to a manageable length, each word used isn't be defined, as it would be in an evidence-based paper. However, I can't quite see what, in a basic sense, is wrong about it. And it is really important to fully understand the basics before going on to the 'buts' and 'what ifs'.

There is a lot to be said for not bothering to distinguish sex at every opportunity

id be happier if everyone was a they - one less trigger for unconscious bias

😂😂

Ever so useful in pregnancy and maternity care.
"Now then people, which one of you might have a wee foetus in your tummy? Any ideas?"

😅

I am certainly very surprised that a 9yo has decided to be non-binary. What we don’t know here is what has happened behind the scenes. I hope it is not simply a case of the parents contacting the school and saying “Alexandra is now non-binary and wants to be called Alex and use the pronouns they/them”.
I would assume that the parents have had a proper meeting with the safeguarding lead. It not, that is concerning.

Have you asked about how the decision came about and why the child wants to be non-binary? Has the school considered the implications for this child’s development and the impact on others?

I think if the head has instructed you to use they/tbem, you are treading on dangerous ground to refuse to do it because it is against your personal opinion.

You need to find out whether the school has handled this properly and if not state your concerns based on safeguarding and not following DfE procedures.

The parents being alternative or new age and your colleagues thinking it is BS is irrelevant.

I am sure you’re aware that it is possible to have more than two parents (mitochondria) and that that people may be intersex or indeed that sex hormones fluctuate enormously. I am being pedantic as indicated by my FWIW . Ok?

One big question is what the expectation is around the other children in the school? As I understand it the school can reasonably insist that other children use her new name but they can't insist that the children call her "they/them" nor that the other children treat her differently from the other girls. If they sanction a child, or accuse a child of bullying, for using she/her instead of they/them, then the school could get in trouble.

Did the head teacher say anything about that?

I would love to see your evidence for the more than 2 parents abd also this mysterious third sex

Maggie I think the pp is referring to a very niche IVF treatment where the mitochondrial DNA is replaced by that from a female donor. It was billed in the tabloid headlines as a three parent baby but really a bit of a stretch, it's something like 0.1% of DNA that came from the donor to avoid passing on particular conditions.

I think that PP might be referring to situations where mitochondrial DNA is donated, to avoid certain inherited diseases. The rest of the post is the usual ignorance about biological science.

Cross post with much better explanation above😁

And obviously sex hormones fluctuating does not in any way change someone's sex, and the vast majority of people with DSDs have an obvious and easily diagnosed sex too.

I'll allow that a tiny minority of DSD conditions may result in an individual for whom sex is difficult to determine. One thing that diagnoses it for sure though is being able to produce viable gametes of one type or the other.

Every single person ever born is one sex or the other. That includes even the most complex DSDs.

And since the genetic material needed for this extraordinary act of conception was required to come from both male and female donors it proves the point that as human beings we are indeed a binary species.