My work insisting I refer to a 9 year old as they/them

[TheMadGardener]

I work in a British primary school. Just started new term. Long standing pupil, a girl, is starting Year 5 now so she is 9 years old. No issues until now although parents are quite "alternative/new age."

Headteacher has informed staff that according to the child and her parents this girl has decided to be non-binary. Staff are now to refer to her as they/them and she is now using a gender-neutral shortened version of her name (think Alex instead of Alexandra or Jo instead of Joanna).

I am extremely uncomfortable with this and will definitely not be using they/them - I will be referring to the child by her chosen abbreviation to avoid using pronouns (at least it's a shortening of her real name rather than a made-up name).

Serious question: I thought new legislation discouraged schools from getting on board with this sort of thing? Or is it only they can't let children do it without parents knowing?

I'm finding it very hard to keep my mouth shut on my actual opinions in the presence of headteacher. (Colleagues I've spoken to on the quiet all think it is bullshit too)

Your wish is his command...**

He’s gorgeous 😻

That's the point you pick up on, a typo? In a discussion about gender you think a typo is relevant?

This is how the battle is lost... with language. And as if a 9 year old really understands what any of this gender stuff means yet.

Every variety of human being is normal. Everyday. Typical. Completely unremarkable. Difference is normal.

The only thing abnormal is abuse.

You do you, but people don’t have to do what you suggest, “softly” or otherwise. I absolutely disagree with propping up this nonsense in any way. But your parenting is completely up to you.

There is still no such thing as “non binary” though. Your child is the sex they are born and others will recognise it.

Read again

It’s the liars who are disabled. By choice, Thank you for your integrity.

The school has a responsibility to protect all minority children.

The child is different, something other kids are perfectly capable of understanding - and may be bullied by them. If adults join in with this, then they will make the child feel they can't trust anyone at school.

if children can't trust adults, they feel unsafe, unhappy and humiliated. It stops them asking for help.

I can promise you, that child won't have an easy ride through school. This term is the start of them discovering how bad it will be. The adults in charge of them, who they rely on for protection, need to set an example.

They can't help who they are, and my god they are in for a horrible time. My son barely survived school, and I fear for every trans/nb kid still in the system. Surveys show almost all trans/nb kids face horrific bullying, most of it sexual, experience school refusal and fear for their lives. Death and rape threats are common.

The eagerness with which furious adults have feasted on this thread depresses the hell out of me. There are so many evils in the world, but a non-binary child attending school as themself, with the support of their parents, is treated like a crime.

Just shows up this forum for what it is, really - a safe space for people who hate trans/nb people and will savagely attack every report of their existence. Look how many posts there are compared to actual issues. And this is a child.

You’re missing the point. The thread isn’t about the child. It’s about the head teacher instructing the teacher to act in a way she disagrees with. That’s built upon,

To use your word, the only evil in the post is by the parents of the child creating and nurturing an environment in which the child is going to be subject to (again your words) “not an easy ride”.

The Ops recent post clearly and nicely articulates what should happen. Well done on her, many wouldn’t have the courage to stand up for what’s right for fear of accusations and attacks from people like yourself (who in your case are even missing the point)

if children can't trust adults, they feel unsafe, unhappy and humiliated. It stops them asking for help.

Funny how you don’t extend this concern to all the other children in the school - the ones you expect the adults to lie to and to gaslight into denying the reality.

I was thinking about this post after speaking with my eldest. He’s 9, and mentioned that last year the class had been separated by sex for KS2 sex education classes. It made sense - to discuss their own body parts and how they work before learning about the opposite sex.

If the OP followed the parents’ wishes, how would she manage to teach the girl about sex while also acknowledging her as a girl and differentiating her from the other girls since the lesson will focus on she/her bodies rather than they/them bodies?

For women / girls this means unnecessary mastectomies.

some males get “nullification.” These are surgeries.

both sexes sometimes meddle with cross sex hormones, increasing risks of stroke etc.

For women in particular this is peak capitalisation/ neoliberalism.

Private surgeries cost enormous amounts of money and formula companies won’t be complaining that breasts are no longer seen as necessary.

Any “leftie” who thinks that trans is cool and progressive needs to give their head a wobble as the joke is on every single individual who’s bought a flag, hormones or surgery to be part of the crew.

The whole of the latest kcsie makes it very clear that biological sex is to be followed for all activities and recorded for all documents.

The statutory RSE guidelines say that teachers should be teaching the facts about sex and gender giving the example that they’re NOT to teach everyone has a gender identity. Because gender stereotypes are socially designed to get people to buy shit, hold women back and prevent boys from being sensitive.

Having a gender identity simply subscribes to this consumerism, even NB. As there’s still flags to buy, pronoun badges to collect and demands on everyone else’s time and thoughts.

it also creates an idea of them and us. Because there will be many girls and boys quite happily railing against gender stereotypes without this grammatical nonsense creating a special caste of “minorities” to be worshipped and valued differently.

The child is different, something other kids are perfectly capable of understanding - and may be bullied by them. If adults join in with this, then they will make the child feel they can't trust anyone at school.

In what way is this child different? She is a girl whose parents have decided is not a girl but a child without a sex. By encouraging this identification as a sexless child her parents have set her up as different which may lead to bullying by the other children. The teachers shouldn't be joining in with this fantasy that this girl is now not a girl but a child without a sex.

if children can't trust adults, they feel unsafe, unhappy and humiliated. It stops them asking for help.

How can this girl trust anyone when her parents are indulging such an absurd belief? They should be keeping her safe from this toxic ideology.

They can't help who they are

Exactly. This girl can't help being a girl and can't decide to opt out of being a girl. Why pretend she is some new type of sexless human?

The children you describe as 'trans/nb kids' all have a sex which can't be changed. The 'horrible time' they experience is due to adults around them indulging this idea that they can change sex or that they don't have a sex instead of helping them to work through whatever difficulties they are facing while keeping a firm grip on reality.

There are so many evils in the world, but a non-binary child attending school as themself, with the support of their parents, is treated like a crime

Parents indulging this nonsense should be treated like criminals. They are doing immense harm to their children.

And this is a child.

Exactly. Leave children alone. Put transsexualism back where it belongs. For adults only.

It’s furious adults not getting that gender ideology shouldn’t be pushed on to children.

I’ve always been particularly curious about those slinging mums who celebrate the concept of trans. Furious with LLL.

Because of this:

I don’t have access to the article but the wonderful breastfeeding pharmacist Wendy has shared it on her page.

When you’ve read the politics of breastfeeding, as I have (sadly released to barter books a few years ago) you see very clearly how the industry of babies and infant formula is manipulated across society and healthcare. Even down to the design of hospitals in the us separating babies from their mothers, in cradles in baby rooms.

Girls should be being taught to celebrate being female, strong, capable and able to do pretty much any job they like - with the proviso that the boys are taught what that means for them if they become parents, and that boys are encouraged to be responsible, sensitive, caring and able to control their emotions.

Trans is a fetishistic, sexualising, gender stereotype perpetuating consumer based, Neo liberal invention.

Don’t fucking fall for it.

Yes, and that is why micro-labelling every tiny variation in human character or interests as a newly gendered box to shut yourself in is so stupid.

Male and female are just biological categories. They are not defined by your personality but by your body. And most of the time it is not the most important aspect of a person. But they are still factual categories that are immutable.

We would like the boundaries for the possible ways to be a male or female person to be as wide as possible.

Get rid of the genderist labelling schemes, they are a restrictive prison.

Dont EVEN get me started on the non binary and trans identified women who think they can take some testosterone to achieve a certain fetishistic look whilst then planning to have a child.

The tetrogenic impacts of testosterone last in these women and impact their babies. Tetrogenic means monster maker.

It’s the most fucked up state of society ever and I can’t believe their are women on mn who support any of this.

Anyway, I have a mini GNR run to run in the rain.

I can promise you, that child won't have an easy ride through school.

It’s like you’re desperate for this to happen so you can say ‘I told you so’
Maybe her parents should back off with the gender identity bullshit that is setting her up to be different.

Nullification info

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5577417-nullification?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

This sounds like a great approach.

Hopefully the parents won't be instilling the kind of messaging that we can see on this thread at home e.g. that anyone who won't actively use they/them pronouns is evil and abusive.

As long as that's not happening, the child won't be primed to look out for this and will be completely oblivious to the position you have taken.

The only exception I can think of to this is that perhaps you not "correcting" children who say she/her might be noticeable. It may be worth having an idea about how you would approach this, should it arise. On this point, you could speak to the head and ask for direction in line with KCSIE. Here's what the guidance says:

"279. The school or college should also make sure that children and their
families are aware that while the school or college will appropriately sanction any cases of bullying or harassment, and take a strong stand against bullying, the school or college must also be conscious of the rights of pupils and staff in relation to their religion or belief. However, schools and colleges supporting social
transition might consider discussing options with pupils and staff such as using names instead of pronouns"

Given the children in the class are 9, it's unrealistic and unfair to expect the children to stop using 3rd person pronouns naturally and instead use a name. Maybe the head would be happy with something like:

"Not everyone will use they/them pronouns. That doesn't mean they are trying to upset you."

Just as importantly, the head needs to be ready for some adult conversations on this. Especially if the parents of the child come barrelling in with any of the ridiculous hyperbole on this thread.

If the parents (or any staff members) do this, the head needs to confidently explain to them that the school doesn't teach the children about non-binary identities because it follows the statutory RSE guidance when explaining facts about sex and biology to children. From the guidance (bolding is mine):

70. In teaching this, schools should be mindful that beyond the facts and the law about biological sex and gender reassignment there is significant debate, and they should be careful not to endorse any particular view or teach it as fact. For example, they should not teach as fact that all people have a gender identity...

Lastly, the Forstater judgement has already been mentioned above. Personally, I think the most important part of this judgement is not the protected right to believe that there are two sexes but the protected right to not believe that everyone has a gender identity (screenshot below). This means that nobody needs an alternative belief system to justify why they don't use they/them pronouns actively. You're protected in law by virtue of your lack of belief in gender identity and the school can't force you to pretend you have one no matter how much the parents might stamp their feet and call you evil for not being a believer.

Exactly this.

Loads of boys and girls live their lives in defiance of gender stereotypes because it is who they are.

Loving parents accept them for who they are, and encourage their interests.

Loving parents do not tell them that it is possible to change sex, or identify out of being of either sex, or that in order to be happy, they need to insist that everyone around them calls them “they” instead of “he” or “she”.

Doing this is setting that child up to think they will crumble if everyone doesn’t do what they want, or that they have the right to make special demands of others.

It is setting that child up as consciously labelled as “special” and “different” from their peers for no reason.

It is not mentally healthy for that child when the only “difference” is a lack of conformity to gendered stereotypes.

Which is very common and a normal human trait.