Graham Linehan on the chapter about him in Jon Ronson's new book

[impossibletoday]

Graham Linehan on Jon Ronson's new book

My ex-friend Jon Ronson may be a case study in the corrupting toxicity of trans ideology. An interesting read.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/29278d258cf0921b

When you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

People are trying to create a story that a transwoman murdered two attendees of Michfest,

That is not how I read it.

The reality is that the murderer knew the murdered women as friends, and the dispute was about a motorcycle club that they were all part of.

That alone is absolutely enough to make it relevant.

So Graham Linehan, a gamer, uses gaming sociolect when arguing with his fellow gamers about game nerdery online.

This means we should take a jump to the left, a step to the right, & dismiss anything else he has to say because it’s ’a fair assumption that he has some alignment’ with some other people who like talking bollocks about completely unrelated subjects.

is that it?

Only I have 3 grown dc who also like talking unutterable incomprehensible bollocks about gaming, & they all seem like functional, reasonable adults the rest of the time.

I’m not sure it would be ‘insane to quibble’ about how Linehan uses ‘NPC’, which was a tongue in cheek insult 40 years ago when I was playing Dungeons & Dragons on graph paper.

It just seems rather unconvincing to build an ad hominem around ‘he’s a gamer, & he’s nearly 60, the sad git, & he uses gamer in jokes!’

Yes. But he’s still got a lot to say about gender ideology that is interesting & he’s been extraordinarily brave & bloody minded in saying it.

@BernardBlacksMolluscs

I'm glad we're past the point of "Does he even use that language"

I can do the legwork to make a strong case that he now has a strong alignment to the anti-woke / 4chan / redpill culture these days, if you want. I'd probably start with his long, grovelling apology to nazi pug enthusiast Mark Meechan.

I'd like to know the stakes first. If I do that successfully, it reflects badly on Graham and should be taken into account when assessing the man and his words, yeah?

Because a repeating pattern is a demand for evidence; the evidence is given, and the response is "well, I don't care about that anyway; what about this other thing"

Be better not to waste each other's time if that's the case

Relevant to a piece about a festival that closed at least a decade before the unrelated murders took place?

Am I missing something?

it's just embarrassing that a man nearing sixty would use these terms

Oh, really?

Yes exactly. Talk about scraping the barrel.

I don't like Linehan very much; he's a bit too crude for my taste.

But I don't deny that he's genuinely extremely committed, has sacrificed a lot and has made a massive impact, both in the UK and abroad.

Him being arrested and held over a tweet made headlines in the UK and internationally. The women who are arrested or even charged, usually without being famous, simply don't have the same ability to generate publicity. That's one reason I suspect the police stopping investigations into non-hate incidents. And that was significant: it helped limit an avenue for activists to use against us.

Even his court case over knocking a phone out of someone's hand attracted a lot of attention, and his billboards there have repeatedly made the news, as well as a lot of questions about what's going on with some of this.

He's also a man, and we need male allies willing to stand up for us. That doesn't mean they have to be perfect people, that everyone has to like them personally, or that everything they say or do is useful. Sometimes the way they go about it isn't great. But their ability to attract attention and reach people that we otherwise might not is genuinely valuable.

Blahhh blah blah

none of this makes men women so rather than dancing around with whatabouttery
do you believe men should stay out of Women's spaces or not?

My grown up children and their friends regularly use 'NPC' in conversation. None of them vote further to the right than LibDem. Is this possibly another US/UK confusion about language?

It's not relevant as evidence in a legal sense, but this is not a court of law. It's relevant as an illustration of character: the person working to open up the women's festival to men is also a person who went on to murder women. Those women don't need to have been associated with the festival for it to be an illustration of character, and in fact they weren't associated with the festival.

Because he needs the publicity Linehan brings. I don’t think nearly as many people would bother with his book otherwise.

interesting. from some internet searching it looks like while it's contested that the victims attended Michfest, it's uncontested that Dana Rivers was part of camp trans

so if Jon Ronson is doing a piece about camp trans and appears to be making a case that it would be progress to allow 'trans women' into a lesbian, women only festival, then yes, I would say you are missing something, and the fact that one of those 'trans women' went on to brutally murder two lesbians is pretty relevant.

well yes

why might these women not have wanted to admit these fixated weird men to a women only event? hmm, quite the chin scratcher

She’s English, living in England. How likely is it that she would care enough about Irish abortion laws to give up her privacy and hours of her time campaigning for abortion IN IRELAND?

Clearly that came from him, not her.

I never disputed that linehan used the term npc. I asked for evidence, and for the leap from 'uses term npc' to the dark, veiled accusation 'he is comfortable with people making whatever assumptions they may choose to about someone using the term in 2026' to be explained. my initial quibble was with the ridiculous and evidence free statement that he may now be anti abortion

I find vague, unsupported accusations of wrong think very sloppy and prefer that people say what they actually mean (working on the assumption that they actually know what they mean. In the case of the poster in question I suspect they possibly didn't).

to be honest like @ThisFunSheep I find him pretty crude and think he'd be much happier if he deleted his twitter account. I also agree that that he's genuinely extremely committed, has sacrificed a lot and has made a massive impact, both in the UK and abroad. i doubt you could say anything that would change my mind on that (but obviously feel free to post as the mood takes you).

2015 - Michfest closed after 40 years
2016 - Dana Rivers murdered a lesbian couple and their son
2021 - Jon Ronson made a documentary about Michfest

Rivers in his own words on Michfest

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20041218024126/danarivers.net/roomforwomyn.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20041218024126/danarivers.net/roomforwomyn.html

Sorry I forgot MN doesn't like web archive links, you'll have to copy and paste the relevant bit into a browser.

This is a bit off topic but I'm sure I read somewhere that trans activists hid a fake car bomb under Graham's wife's car. It was so long ago that I can't find any information about it. I seem to recall it was around the time they also used bomb threats or smoke bombs at a women's conference? Does anyone have a link by any chance?

But River’s only documented connection with camp trans is attending one of the protests. No evidence of being an organiser, founder, key figure in the movement or even a regular attendee. Those were all floated as possibilities after Rivers was charged and ultimately found to be baseless.

Ronson didn’t include the murders in the piece, I think it was the right decision.

If Rivers had been a key figure in camp trans, the victims had attended then yeah, it should have been included. Graham’s making up that is the case and getting annoyed about what he made up.

The truth is he got some mild criticism and has spun out to a ludicrous degree and doesn’t care about the accuracy of his accusations and it’s a repeating pattern

That’s enough from me!

Advanced search is always revealing when it highlights which posters post on FWR only on GL threads - and then post on those threads repeatedly. 😀

Just saying.

Isn't it just....🕵🏻‍♀️

you may wish to read the piece Pencils has linked to above

Assuming Ronson took the trouble to speak to the women organising the event, when asking 'why didn't you admit these men?', the answer 'one of them murdered two lesbians the year after the festival folded, frankly they gave us the creeps' wouldn't seem like a complete non sequitur, no?

I mean the answer 'because this was a woman only event and we didn't want them there' should be perfectly adequate for anyone who views women as anything other than support animals for men

I do wonder why Ronson never took the trouble to ask the camp trans people why they didn't just organise their own festival. what was so special about Michfest?

the only possible answer of course being the women inside it. feels like you missed a trick there eh jon?

To be fair to Helen she did make a massive effort over this in support of changing the Irish abortion laws, presumably because she realised what a predicament she would have been if she had been pregnant in Ireland rather than England. But she probably became aware of it because of Graham. Tge stories I heard on the radio were horrendous. Helen and Graham being brave with their own situation was a massive help.

They are also like a tag team. Plus no actual replies when asked directly.

This Michfest is a distraction, pages of it, what matters is transexuals who wanted to be at this lesbian festival resulted in lesbian women having to cancel their women only event because the men wanted to go there and play at at being women. Graham points this out. Queue whinging on here from the trans handmaidens.