Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

There are ten images on X, sorry can't add them all here, or upload a file with it all in.

I'm afraid that reasoning has been done to death on this thread already. The lady's (?) not for turning.

The reason I remain unconvinced is that I absolutely do not see one single person overseas thinking that a flawed and inadequate trial in Terf Island butters a single parsnip.

Why do you think what is done in England is likely to matter a single damn to anyone in any other country? We stopped being a world power or the gold standard decades ago.

Why were people following the Dutch protocol when that's such a small country?

Evidence-based medicine is about science, it's very much an international effort.

Ah, the hint that I'm not female. Really following the playbook. 👍

It's really not, and you're now reaching for things to be annoyed about because you have no other argument. There are lots of regular posters on MN who are male, and I didn't want to assume, as I did once and got shot down for it.

But, please do continue to see insults wherever you want. It's a very defensive posture, and says a lot about you and nothing about me.

Butting into a conversation I'm having to tell the other poster not to bother is pretty rude, so no, I'm not being defensive or reaching for things to be annoyed about.

This thread isn't your echo chamber.

Why were people following the Dutch protocol when that's such a small country?

Well, that's a very good question. I posted a link to this article earlier in the thread which gives us some idea of what was going on 20-30 years ago in this area (the article is from 2015, so when he talks about 15 years ago he's talking about around 2000).

The New Girl in School: Transgender Surgery at 18 - The New York Times

But the drive to treat children is relatively new. One of the first and biggest hormone programs for young teenagers in the United States is led by a Harvard-affiliated pediatric endocrinologist, Dr. Norman Spack, at Boston Children’s Hospital.

Dr. Spack recalled being at a meeting in Europe about 15 years ago, when he learned that the Dutch were using puberty blockers in transgender early adolescents.

“I was salivating,” he recalled. “I said we had to do this.”

Yes, Dr Norman Spack said he was 'salivating' at the idea of medicating children to try to make them better facsimiles of the opposite sex.

It's vile. Doctors who want to play God. Just because they can.

Perhaps you could answer my questions then.

Who in the UK is purchasing the drugs for the children? Who is injecting them? As they are in the UK, breaking UK laws, why can't they be prosecuted?

10% of the kids at gender clinics have reported (so there will be others that haven't) that they are self-medicating with cross-sex hormones. This isn't a small and easily solved problem.

I agree.

How old are these 'kids'? Are they buying them with pocket money and injecting themselves? Where are the parents?

Under 18. I guess sometimes it's the kids and sometimes the parents. I think I've seen a thread about it on here. Reddit is full of advice of how to self-medicate.

So you agree that this is driven by quacks and doctors with a god complex? Are clinical trials on healthy children normally conducted in order to try to persuade such people that they shouldn't be medicating children like this? Would they even care about the results?

Helen Webberley was prosecuted for giving testosterone to a 12-year-old girl. Shouldn't we just prosecute these other quacks?

How many of these parents have been prosecuted for harming their children? Does anyone ever take any action against them?

This thread is not your personal domain, either. And this puberty blocker trial is not your personal pet project, at least I hope it isn't! We all have a stake in this, and we all have a right to express our opinions on this thread.

I was addressing my comments to OldCrone because I had previous experience on this thread, and the argument hadn't move on at all in 30 pages.

I am allowed to post to other posters and you are not required to read my comments, or respond to something I posted to someone else.

Again, after 30 pages of going around in circles, this is still a waste of time.

@OldCrone I hope you have more luck in getting some useful answers.

Helen Webberley's clinic now runs out of Singapore doesn't it?

Doctors in other countries currently legally prescribing these drugs could be stopped from doing so by their regulators, as in the UK?

I am allowed to post to other posters and you are not required to read my comments, or respond to something I posted to someone else.

😆 something you posted to someone else about me! Yeah, weird that I might take an interest in that. What a silly comment.

I've just looked and I first posted that link about Norman Spack on 11th July, and I asked @noblegiraffe then for an explanation of what was being treated, other than a failure to conform to gender stereotypes. So 6 days of not getting any answers. I think you're right that we'll just get a couple of hundred more posts of waffle and avoiding answering questions until the thread is full.

All this does illustrate the fact that the genderists have absolutely nothing to support their position, but somehow they still get to experiment on kids.

Why don't you just pop over there and sort them out then as you're so concerned about what's going on in other countries?

I don't think it's a failing on my part that I'm concerned about what's happening to children in other countries.

I'm not sure why you expect me to provide an answer to a position that I don't actually support.

Oh, so you don't support the trial going ahead now? What made you change your mind?

I haven’t. I explained my position to you upthread and it wasn’t contingent on thinking gender incongruence is a medical condition.

I'm not optimistic that the UK trial will change the clinical practice in the world. Some clinicians will continue to claim that the benefits balance the risks, and will push for informed consent model.With the data currently available, half of the US states have already banned the blockers, half are doubling down. I think New Zealand is revising its position, Australia and Canada mostly not. In Europe some nordic countries have slowed down, Germany and the Netherlands are not. Personally I think the change will come from the litigations in the US, although they are difficult because of the statute of limitations (?). Once insurances will stop paying for PB, the medicalization of the "trans child" will stop in the US, there biggest English speaking country. Gender dysphorya will again be considered transient in most cases, and often a symptom of something else. Without blockers, with hormones at 18, the social contagion will slow down. Most parents will be better informed and enabled to say no to private providers. This is how I imagine it, but who knows?

We already know that these drugs cause this long list of awful side effects, even in fully grown adults. We already have MRIs and bone density scans and blood tests.

But apparently we're all supposed to pretend that we have no idea about this, and poison a couple of hundred already-abused children whose parents are already determined to carry out said poisoning come hell or high water. And then at last we will have MRIs and bone density scans and blood tests.

And then apparently everybody in the whole world is finally going to accept that these drugs cause this long list of awful side effects.

Makes total sense.