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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial

264 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 13:28

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

There are ten images on X, sorry can't add them all here, or upload a file with it all in.

James Esses (@JamesEsses) on X

🚨Breaking🚨 Last night, in what is significant overreach for a backbench Peer, Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial. I have posted below the full document for people to read. He...

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

OP posts:
icingonmycupcake · Yesterday 13:41

God it's too hot to get irate. I haven't got the energy.

Suffice to say she turned out to be a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I'm deeply disappointed.

That's the best I can do. 🥵

endofthelinefinally · Yesterday 13:42

icingonmycupcake · Yesterday 13:41

God it's too hot to get irate. I haven't got the energy.

Suffice to say she turned out to be a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. And I'm deeply disappointed.

That's the best I can do. 🥵

Yes.

moto748e · Yesterday 13:52

That's pretty damning from James Esses.

spannasaurus · Yesterday 13:57

CASS was speaking at an event in the last week or so and was talking about an 11 year old boy who had been socially transitioned as a toddler and who was so worried about puberty that he wouldn't leave the house and as a result was not getting any exercise so was developing weak bones. This was given as a reason not to worry about the potential effect on bone strength if given puberty blockers.

APinkAndSpottyGiraffey · Yesterday 14:01

spannasaurus · Yesterday 13:57

CASS was speaking at an event in the last week or so and was talking about an 11 year old boy who had been socially transitioned as a toddler and who was so worried about puberty that he wouldn't leave the house and as a result was not getting any exercise so was developing weak bones. This was given as a reason not to worry about the potential effect on bone strength if given puberty blockers.

Surely that’s child abuse? Surely??

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 14:01

spannasaurus · Yesterday 13:57

CASS was speaking at an event in the last week or so and was talking about an 11 year old boy who had been socially transitioned as a toddler and who was so worried about puberty that he wouldn't leave the house and as a result was not getting any exercise so was developing weak bones. This was given as a reason not to worry about the potential effect on bone strength if given puberty blockers.

Yes. This is TT's take on her appalling anecdote:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/abuse-two-and-a-half-year-old-child/

Abuse of a two and a half year-old child - Transgender Trend

Hilary Cass has exposed the abuse of a two and a half year-old child during a debate in the House of Lords.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/abuse-two-and-a-half-year-old-child/

endofthelinefinally · Yesterday 14:02

Well. I would be looking at the process of choosing her to carry out the review.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 14:10

This is a summary, try and track down the actual document if you can

Baroness Cass has published a parliamentary briefing defending the proposed PATHWAYS puberty-blocker trial.
The briefing accepts several very important points:

  • there is currently no robust evidence that puberty blockers are safe or effective for children with gender dysphoria;
  • the Dutch and Tavistock studies were methodologically weak;
  • the Tavistock study found no overall psychological benefit;
  • any hoped-for reduction in distress or improvement in quality of life remains only a hypothesis;
  • puberty blockers reduce normal bone-mineral development;
  • the long-term effects on adult bone strength, fertility, sexual development and cognition remain unknown.
Cass’s main argument is that a trial is nevertheless necessary because some children are obtaining hormones or other drugs from private or unregulated sources. She says that carefully selected children, fewer than 5% of those attending the new NHS services, would be extensively assessed, approved by a national multidisciplinary panel and closely monitored during the trial.

She argues that blockers might reduce distress, “buy time”, prevent some children from obtaining cross-sex hormones illegally and help researchers establish whether there is any benefit. She concludes that refusing to run the trial is not neutral and claims that more children would be harmed without it.
However, the briefing has some serious weaknesses.

First, it is an argument in favour of the trial, not a neutral account of the evidence. Uncertainty about benefit is used to justify experimenting, while uncertainty about harm is repeatedly presented in reassuring language.
Cass describes around 250 children who admitted taking various medications as “250 cases of known harm”. That is not supported by the information given. Unsafe or unmonitored medication use creates a risk of harm, but it does not prove that every one of those children was actually harmed.

The existence of illegal prescribing also does not demonstrate that giving puberty blockers through an NHS trial is beneficial or necessary. The alternative is not simply to abandon these children. They can still receive psychological support, treatment for mental-health problems, help with school, neurodevelopmental assessment and family support without suppressing puberty.

The claim that PATHWAYS is not intended to lead to cross-sex hormones is also difficult to reconcile with the trial’s selection criteria and the historic evidence. Participants will be selected partly because they have persistent gender dysphoria, a continuing desire to transition and a repeated request for endocrine treatment. In previous cohorts, the overwhelming majority of children placed on blockers went on to cross-sex hormones.

Calling blockers a neutral “pause” or a way of “buying time” is therefore unproven. It is equally possible that suppressing normal puberty prevents the physical and psychological development through which some children would otherwise become reconciled to their sex.

The trial also cannot answer many of the most important questions. The randomised blocker-versus-no-blocker comparison lasts only about 12 months. After that, both groups receive blockers. A study of this size and length cannot determine adult fertility, mature sexual function, peak bone mass, fracture risk, later regret or long-term psychological outcomes.

Cass is right that the existing evidence is extremely poor. But that does not automatically establish that this particular experiment is ethical, necessary or capable of answering the questions that matter most.

The strongest evidence-based conclusion remains that puberty blockers should not be offered as routine treatment for children with gender dysphoria. They suppress a normal developmental process, have a known negative effect on bone development, carry serious unresolved long-term risks and have not been shown reliably to resolve gender dysphoria or produce an overall psychological benefit.

OP posts:
1984Now · Yesterday 14:13

When I mention "suicidal empathy" for the umpteenth time in a conversation with anyone interested in these things, they ask me what do I mean, give me an example, the conversion ban and now especially this, are what come to mind.
Perfect cover for the likes of Streeting who straddle the GC and trans ideology positions in politics, and grist to the mill for the likes of Nadia Whittome, who view any push back on self ID as a trans genocide.
The system is corrupted, and even the basic medical precept of "first, do no harm" takes the case of a 2 year old never told the truth regarding their sex, but infantilised to allow the belief of "born in the wrong body" to be inculcated, instead of the parents, teachers, medical professionals, social workers etc being obliged to take the ultimately harder, but more truthful path, to a sane outcome.
And now Cass, a person eminently qualified and of the class in society that should be encouraging the hard work needed not to let children down, is seemingly prone to suicidal empathy herself.
Good luck stopping this trial now, Cass has given total cover to it.

HappilyHarriet · Yesterday 14:14

So is the lifelong effect of treatment of this boy being followed up in an appropriate study? Because it would be wonderful to prove in 50 years that after puberty blockers he went on to live happily ever after. Or not.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 14:22

She called for one in the report that she got ennobled for, so she's going to keep plugging away at it forever. 😤

TwoLoonsAndASprout · Yesterday 14:22

I would love to have a chat with any of the researchers who actually carried out the report that bares Cass’s name - because, let’s face it, it was vast, and she didnae do any of it - to see what they think of the way she has subsequently twisted their work to her own, nasty ends.

I have so little regard for this woman now.

MsGreying · Yesterday 14:36

spannasaurus · Yesterday 13:57

CASS was speaking at an event in the last week or so and was talking about an 11 year old boy who had been socially transitioned as a toddler and who was so worried about puberty that he wouldn't leave the house and as a result was not getting any exercise so was developing weak bones. This was given as a reason not to worry about the potential effect on bone strength if given puberty blockers.

Child abuse and munch-trans-by-proxy.

The child would do better without the person who decided to torture them mentally and now wants to do it physically.

1984Now · Yesterday 14:42

MsGreying · Yesterday 14:36

Child abuse and munch-trans-by-proxy.

The child would do better without the person who decided to torture them mentally and now wants to do it physically.

This what two decades of ideological capture in medicine, media, academia gets you.
Parents who in the final analysis allow their kid to believe an untruth and effectively exclude/seclude themself, totally encouraged and not challenged by all the "experts" that matter, in a decade where the only message you hear from prominent people is that pushback is cruel, child abuse.
And as you say, the cherry on the cake of letting your child down totally is to embed that error with medication.

Seethlaw · Yesterday 14:50

My brain likes to elaborate theories. And right now, I'm wondering if Cass is not trying to criminalise giving puberty blockers to trans kids altogether.

Regarding the Jo case, her question was:

"I ask the noble lady the minister should her subsequent treatment be decided by politicians or by the clinicians who are looking after her?”

She may well be looking for a "politicians" answer, as in: politicians tell clinicians to stop all PB prescriptions altogether.

And now:

Cass’s main argument is that a trial is nevertheless necessary because some children are obtaining hormones or other drugs from private or unregulated sources.

Again, this is a problem that could be 95% solved by making PBs altogether illegal to give to a trans child. Some parents will still go ahead anyway, but for most, the criminalisation of the whole affair, after it's been proven with no doubt that PBs are bad for trans kids, should be enough to deter them.

Even this:

She says that carefully selected children, fewer than 5% of those attending the new NHS services, would be extensively assessed, approved by a national multidisciplinary panel and closely monitored during the trial.

is pretty damning. It's basically saying that they would experiment only on the most determined, who would likely get PBs another way anyway if not through this trial - and, crucially, who would have no reason whatsoever not to show a perfectly rosy result in the end. But if she expects, on the contrary, glum results, then it would be the biggest condemnation possible for PBs, if even the perfect subjets don't give good results.

At this point, I have to wonder if she doesn't have access to partial and unscientifically obtained but abysmal data about the poor results of PBs, which she can't use, and thus which she hopes to reproduce in a thorough trial. If that's the case, and she's asking only for a 12-month trial anyway, then it could be that the effects of PBs are even far worse, and far quicker in effect, than what we thought already.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · Yesterday 14:55

@Seethlaw, you are a bigger person than me, I’m afraid. I can’t find it in me to see her actions as anything other than those of a dedicated ideologue.

Seethlaw · Yesterday 15:05

TwoLoonsAndASprout · Yesterday 14:55

@Seethlaw, you are a bigger person than me, I’m afraid. I can’t find it in me to see her actions as anything other than those of a dedicated ideologue.

Yeah, that's the other possibility. Because at this point, she's not leaving much mental room for any other option but the two extremes: either she's fully bought into the trans madness, and she's full on fighting against it in her own, unconvential way.

It's the little details that make me wonder, because they don't fit with the "dedicated ideologue" side. Things like, why didn't she even mention the Jo case? You'd have to be much more blinded than she showed herself to be in her report, to not see how appalling an argument it is for giving PBs. Or the fact that she seems satisfied with a 12 month trial, when any doctor worth their salt would know that properly assessing PBs would take many more years to give actually usable data.

But I'm not in her confidence or in her head, so it's entirely possible that she's spent too much time among TRAs lately and has become completely deluded since she put out her report.

EasternStandard · Yesterday 15:09

MsGreying · Yesterday 14:36

Child abuse and munch-trans-by-proxy.

The child would do better without the person who decided to torture them mentally and now wants to do it physically.

So sad. There are better ways to respond as adults than what is currently happening.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · Yesterday 15:15

Seethlaw · Yesterday 15:05

Yeah, that's the other possibility. Because at this point, she's not leaving much mental room for any other option but the two extremes: either she's fully bought into the trans madness, and she's full on fighting against it in her own, unconvential way.

It's the little details that make me wonder, because they don't fit with the "dedicated ideologue" side. Things like, why didn't she even mention the Jo case? You'd have to be much more blinded than she showed herself to be in her report, to not see how appalling an argument it is for giving PBs. Or the fact that she seems satisfied with a 12 month trial, when any doctor worth their salt would know that properly assessing PBs would take many more years to give actually usable data.

But I'm not in her confidence or in her head, so it's entirely possible that she's spent too much time among TRAs lately and has become completely deluded since she put out her report.

I guess my take is, given that I (and you and the rest of us) aren’t in her head, the only thing we can judge her on are her actions. And when someone shows you who they are…

OldCrone · Yesterday 15:17

But I'm not in her confidence or in her head, so it's entirely possible that she's spent too much time among TRAs lately and has become completely deluded since she put out her report.

Remember how she was threatened by the TRAs after the report came out, and advised not to travel on public transport? I'm wondering if she's decided to go full TRA to keep the threats at bay because she's worried that they'll actually kill her otherwise.

Shedmistress · Yesterday 15:27

What I want to know is, when one of the adult clinics DID share their follow up results, where did those results go? And we know that if the results had been good, the adult clinics would have been shouting this from the rooftops.

moto748e · Yesterday 15:47

OldCrone · Yesterday 15:17

But I'm not in her confidence or in her head, so it's entirely possible that she's spent too much time among TRAs lately and has become completely deluded since she put out her report.

Remember how she was threatened by the TRAs after the report came out, and advised not to travel on public transport? I'm wondering if she's decided to go full TRA to keep the threats at bay because she's worried that they'll actually kill her otherwise.

Agree. Even at a minimum, it'd be a factor, surely.

ghostofadog · Yesterday 15:50

I really hope you're right Seethlaw.

My thoughts on this are that Cass must have a trans-identified family member, whether recent or longstanding I don't know. Otherwise I can't see how anyone could look at all that evidence, or lack of it, and still press for a trial. I would really like to hear from someone on the research team behind the review to get some indication of where Cass actually stands.

endofthelinefinally · Yesterday 15:54

I wonder if she is being threatened.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · Yesterday 15:58

To me there is something overblown about it. As if focussing on transition and answering the questions about puberty blockers had become more important to Dame Cass than just doing the least-worst thing for a lot of confused kids.

Maybe having been steeped so deep in the questions for so long she can't just step away and say "we've gone as far as we can and OK maybe we'll never find out if puberty blockers might have helped some kids but there's no safe or ethical way to find out so too bad".

And her justifications for going ahead are only that, justifications for something she wants to do anyway. None of them seem like good enough reasons in themselves.