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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial

815 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 10/07/2026 13:28

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

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James Esses (@JamesEsses) on X

🚨Breaking🚨 Last night, in what is significant overreach for a backbench Peer, Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial. I have posted below the full document for people to read. He...

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

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noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:35

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 12/07/2026 22:26

I am only focussing on the UK because this is a proposed clinical trial to be conducted in the UK by the UK NHS on UK kids.

On the one hand, the idea that if the UK conducts a trial and then the rest of the world will say "ooh yes if that's what the UK found so it must be true here too" goes against a lot of historic evidence of international responses to evidence from other countries about transitioning kids. It would be naive to expect that a UK trial will be accepted as conclusive everywhere else.

And even if we could expect this to work any better than just "the UK says no", no UK ethics comittee would agree to a clinical trial that puts kids in the UK at risk just to prove a point to the rest of the world.

Medical evidence is definitely considered internationally.

When systematic reviews are conducted, they consider the quality of the research, not the country.

HenriettaHippopotamus · 12/07/2026 22:35

TRAs constantly say the science is settled. This trial doesn’t matter to them.

moto748e · 12/07/2026 22:37

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:34

You don't think they'd also like actual statistically valid evidence that the drugs don't work?

I think what they'd like is for this madness to stop.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:38

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 22:34

Define what you mean by 'don't work'.

'The drugs don't work' is a song by the Verve.

It's snappier than 'the recorded benefits don't outweigh the risks' or 'there aren't any statistically significant differences in outcomes between those given puberty blockers and those who weren't.

OldCrone · 12/07/2026 22:41

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:32

Right, but we already know there was crap record keeping, and that female trans people sometimes have mastectomies so

  1. that's nothing new
  2. that's nothing that is going to convince people to stop prescribing puberty blockers to kids which is the whole bloody point. Looking at the crap data doesn't answer questions about whether the interventions actually helped.

Actually helped to do what?

Helped to stop puberty? We know they do that already.

Helped the child to accept their sexed body without further intervention?

Helped them to pass as the opposite sex as adults?

What do they hope to achieve by giving these drugs to children? What is the condition they are treating? What does a successful outcome look like?

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 22:55

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:38

'The drugs don't work' is a song by the Verve.

It's snappier than 'the recorded benefits don't outweigh the risks' or 'there aren't any statistically significant differences in outcomes between those given puberty blockers and those who weren't.

Bit of a swerve there.

'The recorded benefits don't outweigh the risks'.
TRA clinicians: our patients and their parents are the ones who must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks in their particular case.

'No statistically significant differences in outcomes'.
TRA clinicians: then there is no harm done by letting individual patients and their parents decide whether they feel the outcome will be significantly positive in their particular case.

BettyBooper · 12/07/2026 22:58

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:08

And like I've been saying, you can't do a proper analysis of a pile of crap.

'Adults who attended gender clinics as a child are more likely to suffer from mental health problems as an adult' 'ok, did you control for childhood trauma and conditions like autism?' 'No, because we didn't know who had them'.

'Can we compare bone density of the adults who attended the gender clinics as a child with the general population' 'we've got like 12 of them who have ever had that measured, so no'.

'Can we compare mastectomy rates' 'yeah, they're higher for women who think they are trans, well that's a surprise'.

'Liver function' 'non starter'.

'how many have destransitioned?' 'No idea'.

Gender ideology is a pile of crap.

It's indefinable.

It's untestable.

It's utterly fucking ridiculous.

And yet, you support sterilising children to persuade stupid people to believe it's a stupid, unevidenced and completely batshit idea

Ok.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:59

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 22:55

Bit of a swerve there.

'The recorded benefits don't outweigh the risks'.
TRA clinicians: our patients and their parents are the ones who must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks in their particular case.

'No statistically significant differences in outcomes'.
TRA clinicians: then there is no harm done by letting individual patients and their parents decide whether they feel the outcome will be significantly positive in their particular case.

And yet they're not allowed to prescribe them in the UK outside of the trial so it sounds like registered doctors can't just overrule the regulations based on what they reckon.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:00

OldCrone · 12/07/2026 22:41

Actually helped to do what?

Helped to stop puberty? We know they do that already.

Helped the child to accept their sexed body without further intervention?

Helped them to pass as the opposite sex as adults?

What do they hope to achieve by giving these drugs to children? What is the condition they are treating? What does a successful outcome look like?

The objectives are documented in the protocol.
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/assets/pathways/trial/pathways-trial-protocol.pdf

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/assets/pathways/trial/pathways-trial-protocol.pdf

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:01

BettyBooper · 12/07/2026 22:58

Gender ideology is a pile of crap.

It's indefinable.

It's untestable.

It's utterly fucking ridiculous.

And yet, you support sterilising children to persuade stupid people to believe it's a stupid, unevidenced and completely batshit idea

Ok.

We have to live in the world as it is, rather than as we would like it to be.

BettyBooper · 12/07/2026 23:03

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:01

We have to live in the world as it is, rather than as we would like it to be.

The world as it is has males and females in it. My opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:05

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:32

Right, but we already know there was crap record keeping, and that female trans people sometimes have mastectomies so

  1. that's nothing new
  2. that's nothing that is going to convince people to stop prescribing puberty blockers to kids which is the whole bloody point. Looking at the crap data doesn't answer questions about whether the interventions actually helped.

You keep calling it crap data. It’s not. It’s data. It’s useful information. It’s not like there is nothing at all available from their time at the Tavistock.

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:05

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 22:59

And yet they're not allowed to prescribe them in the UK outside of the trial so it sounds like registered doctors can't just overrule the regulations based on what they reckon.

Not allowed pending the results of a badly conceived trial.

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:07

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 22:55

Bit of a swerve there.

'The recorded benefits don't outweigh the risks'.
TRA clinicians: our patients and their parents are the ones who must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks in their particular case.

'No statistically significant differences in outcomes'.
TRA clinicians: then there is no harm done by letting individual patients and their parents decide whether they feel the outcome will be significantly positive in their particular case.

TRA clinicians: our patients and their parents are the ones who must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks in their particular case.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it has now been proposed by these people that there’s no such thing as a bad long term outcome, because if it’s what the child wanted at the time, and they got it, that is enough to define it as a successful outcome.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/07/2026 23:07

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 21:28

Yeah but imagine you do your follow-up and they're not all dead or incapacitated but actually claiming that the lobotomy saved their life?

e.g. https://inews.co.uk/news/fought-take-puberty-blockers-saved-life-3427474

I went through five years of social transition during secondary education

This was doubtless the definitely not-neutral act that set out the inevitability of the rest.

Will social affirmation of transition be part of the trial, I wonder? Because it definitely has an effect on outcomes.

One puzzling thing is that he seems to have started on puberty blockers an age 17, a point when (I thought) puberty had already happened; and then carried on with them. To what extent was he being kept a child mentally as well as physically?

Re the phrase he used to prove the widespread safe use of of puberty blockers and their general good, he said they were used for ‘everything from early menstruation to precocious puberty’. It sounds as though he means many conditions, but those are one and the same thing I’d have thought.

It is terrible that being transgender is now out there like a new sort of thing to desire. He had decided on it and set out to get his heart’s desire. If the choice had never existed in the first place, and he’d never been socially “affirmed” aged 12, he’d eventually have been fine most likely.

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:11

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:07

TRA clinicians: our patients and their parents are the ones who must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks in their particular case.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it has now been proposed by these people that there’s no such thing as a bad long term outcome, because if it’s what the child wanted at the time, and they got it, that is enough to define it as a successful outcome.

Which is more or less what they have said to Keira Bell. You wanted it. You got it. Quit moaning.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:12

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:05

You keep calling it crap data. It’s not. It’s data. It’s useful information. It’s not like there is nothing at all available from their time at the Tavistock.

If you don’t understand the difference between good data and crap data and how this affects the conclusions you can reliably draw from it then I’m not sure I can be bothered to type it out again.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:13

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:05

Not allowed pending the results of a badly conceived trial.

Others think that knowledge is power.

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:14

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:13

Others think that knowledge is power.

Shows how little you understand about postmodernism.

BettyBooper · 12/07/2026 23:16

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:12

If you don’t understand the difference between good data and crap data and how this affects the conclusions you can reliably draw from it then I’m not sure I can be bothered to type it out again.

Any thoughts on how men saying they're women might distort data, or is that just okidowki?

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:16

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:12

If you don’t understand the difference between good data and crap data and how this affects the conclusions you can reliably draw from it then I’m not sure I can be bothered to type it out again.

I have also given multiple examples of how the data could be useful and the idea of this linkage study is widely supported for these reasons.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:19

NotBadConsidering · 12/07/2026 23:16

I have also given multiple examples of how the data could be useful and the idea of this linkage study is widely supported for these reasons.

Your idea of useful is if it can tell us that lots of data is missing, which we already know.

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:20

BettyBooper · 12/07/2026 23:16

Any thoughts on how men saying they're women might distort data, or is that just okidowki?

Of course it isn’t.

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:22

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2026 23:19

Your idea of useful is if it can tell us that lots of data is missing, which we already know.

Recommendation 5: NHS England, working with DHSC should direct the gender clinics to participate in the data linkage study within the lifetime of the current statutory instrument. NHS England’s Research Oversight Board should take responsibility for interpreting the findings of the research.

Why does Cass want it done, if it is so 'crap'?

AimsAndObjectives · 12/07/2026 23:28

Also from the Cass review:

90. When clinicians talk to patients about what interventions may be best for them, they usually refer to the longer-term benefits and risks of different options, based on outcome data from other people who have been through a similar care pathway. This information is not currently available for interventions in children and young people with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria, so young people and their families have to make decisions without an adequate picture of the potential impacts and outcomes.

91. A strand of research commissioned by the Review was a quantitative data linkage study. The aim of this study was to fill some of the gaps in follow-up data for the approximately 9,000 young people who have been through GIDS. This would help to develop a stronger evidence base about the types of support and interventions received and longer-term outcomes.

Cass is looking for longer-term benefits and risks. This data cannot come from a 2 year trial.