Hilary Cass sent a document to every single MP and Peer, justifying and defending the puberty blockers trial

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/2075512549248745744?s=20

There are ten images on X, sorry can't add them all here, or upload a file with it all in.

A PP admitted that lobotomies would have stopped sooner if there had been a proper trial of them.

It could have been stopped sooner if someone had said “you know all those people you lobotomised and said we’re doing great after just a few months? Well, we went and found them all and actually they’re all doing terribly several years later. They’re in mental hospitals, dead, incapacitated, or suffering terribly.”

An earlier study just finding out what had happened to the original number would have stopped it sooner. It didn’t need more people to be lobotomised in an earlier study to stop it sooner.

Yeah but imagine you do your follow-up and they're not all dead or incapacitated but actually claiming that the lobotomy saved their life?

e.g. https://inews.co.uk/news/fought-take-puberty-blockers-saved-life-3427474

How thorough was the research on this guest
@gmb?
Stephanie Lynette (male) had a brain blood clot due to exogenous oestrogen intake: the clot travelled to his jugular, but not before affecting his sight. His surgery had to be revisioned and he suffered post-op depression.

x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/2032372565184827772

I still cannot wrap my head around what any outcome to this trial would prove. It cannot be extricated from the ideology surrounding it.

I'm fairly certain most of the participants don't want the outcome of desistance. The outcome they want is cross sex hormones.

If the participants actively want to pursue this preferred outcome, the only thing that would counter this would be findings of significant harm to physical health, cognition, mental health etc.

And the participants would still see cross sex hormones as the solution. Because it's based on ideology not reality.

Nothing scientific has persuaded the ideologs thus far, and neither will any outcome of this trial.

Can you imagine being the parent in this situation? Hoping the government will be sensible and step in and say no? Treading this fine line while the society around you eggs it on? And finding that they are willing to sacrifice your child for the greater good (as per noblegiraffes suggestion).

We have to have a backbone and say no. Absolutely no.

So then you don’t rely on single case reports do you?🙄 You do a proper analysis of long term data. Like we’ve been saying.

I can't access that article, but it must be a rare person who hadn't started puberty aged 16.

Are you really suggesting that British children should be sacrificed to save all those children in other countries with different laws? And that those countries will all step in line with whatever they find out in this trial? Words fail me.

It’s crazy isn’t it?

And as I said in a pp, it sends out a strong message to the rest of the world if the UK says “we considered a trial, but it is highly unethical to do so given we will knowingly harm children, because this treatment pathway is ultimately harmful.”

And it STILL hasn’t be clarified what is being treated.

And it STILL hasn’t be clarified what is being treated.

And it won't be.

The clear difference in what is considered outcome success (being happy with your sexed body v being able to 'pass' as an adult) is the huge elephant in the room.

Can we just refresh our memories on the fact that when medics at GIDS said 'hang on this isn't right', not one of the higher ups listened or started improving note and record keeping or follow ups. And the same people have even involved in putting together this utter shitshow of a 'trial'. I wouldn't trust them to make breakfast.

A parent who really doesn't want their child to have puberty blockers is now somehow being forced into signing up their child to this trial?

I think @SingleSexSpacesInSchools has summarised answers to most of your points. But anyway.

not just it being that the most 'trans identified' kids who would end up on hormones anyway are the ones who start blockers

Yes, the Keira Bell Judicial Review (which led to the Cass review) were horrified to learn that although the selection of kids who were put on puberty blockers at the Tavistock GIDS was pretty random and it seemed to depend more on the preferences of different clinicians than the child's own characteristics, all those kids who were put on blockers (bar one or two) went on to cross-sex hormones. Far more than the ones who (for equally random reasons) weren't given blockers. That's how they realised blockers were a pathway.

getting the required evidence that stops kids being given puberty blockers is even more important to stop that pipeline then?

Not really no, because (a) it would take so many years for evidence of harm to appear that many more children would be harmed before the evidence was gathered and (b) the govt and NHS could shut down the pipeline now without gathering any more evidence from children and (c) even allowing a study implies that there must be potential value in the blockers and encourages parents and older children outside of the study to continue to seek out other ways to get the blockers.

The NHS could (I hope) still gather some useful evidence about all the children they already "treated" in this way, though the practice of assigning a new NHS number and a new medical record at some stage of transition might screw that up.
https://pcse.england.nhs.uk/help/patient-registrations/gender-reassignment
"The [GP] practice also needs to ensure the patient is aware of the implications in issuing a new NHS Number, including potential loss of old medical record,"

Either way it's not worth putting yet another batch of children through it.

And like I've been saying, you can't do a proper analysis of a pile of crap.

'Adults who attended gender clinics as a child are more likely to suffer from mental health problems as an adult' 'ok, did you control for childhood trauma and conditions like autism?' 'No, because we didn't know who had them'.

'Can we compare bone density of the adults who attended the gender clinics as a child with the general population' 'we've got like 12 of them who have ever had that measured, so no'.

'Can we compare mastectomy rates' 'yeah, they're higher for women who think they are trans, well that's a surprise'.

'Liver function' 'non starter'.

'how many have destransitioned?' 'No idea'.

I see you're only focusing on kids in the UK. And thinking that the NHS allowing a clinical trial somehow validates puberty blockers as a treatment way more than their continued promotion and prescription both online and in other countries.

So we're going to have to disagree on the importance of collecting data to protect all children.

Er, have you not seen the emotional blackmail involved? We have seen it here on this site, repeatedly. It's an integral part. 'Your kid will commit suicide if you don't....' Mums terrified. Not knowing what to do.

Either a parent believes in the same crap as their child or is pressured to believe it.

I thought you said you didn't believe it but wanted proof to save all the others? So is it dumb or blackmailed parents you would like to rely on for that? Which kids are you happy to sacrifice? Would you be happy to sacrifice your own?

I'd love you to specify which kids you think are ok to sacrifice for this absolutely bollocks trial with no meaning other than to validate felishistic men.

I am only focussing on the UK because this is a proposed clinical trial to be conducted in the UK by the UK NHS on UK kids.

No UK ethics comittee would agree to a clinical trial that puts kids in the UK at risk just to prove a point to the rest of the world.

It's Stephanie Lynette. He's an activist and appeared on Good Morning Britain as 'balance' to Keira Bell. Given blockers just before his 17th birthday and XSH two years later. Article neglects to mention that oestrogen caused a blood clot in his brain which has left him with damaged eyesight.

Maybe instead of a PB trial we should stop telling children that changing sex is possible...

Radical!

I am only focussing on the UK because this is a proposed clinical trial to be conducted in the UK by the UK NHS on UK kids.

On the one hand, the idea that if the UK conducts a trial and then the rest of the world will say "ooh yes if that's what the UK found so it must be true here too" goes against a lot of historic evidence of international responses to evidence from other countries about transitioning kids. It would be naive to expect that a UK trial will be accepted as conclusive everywhere else.

And even if we could expect this to work any better than just "the UK says no", no UK ethics comittee would agree to a clinical trial that puts kids in the UK at risk just to prove a point to the rest of the world.

Thank you. That's awful. How on earth is that balance to Kiera Bell?

And again, it’s all useful information.

“We found high rates of mental health issues in those who had medically transitioned as children, compared to those who transitioned as adults or their non-trans peers. Limitations of this study was a lack of data on ACEs and ASD due to poor record keeping.”

“We found poor documentation of bone density issues. We recommend urgent implementation of a National Registry to investigate and address this potential issue.”

“We found 30% of females who transitioned as children had undergone mastectomy by 25.”

“We found no available data on detransition. Therefore it is not accurate to say the detransition rate is <1%, but remains a significant unknown.”

I’m sure there's a lot of women in countries like Australia and NZ who are watching the situation very closely, and very much hoping that the UK will show some back-bone.

Exactly! The TRAs keep going on about how trans people have always existed and then giving some (dubious) examples of successes. So if they could live in their sexed bodies then without modern drugs and surgeries, why can’t they do that now?

Right, but we already know there was crap record keeping, and that female trans people sometimes have mastectomies so

1. that's nothing new
2. that's nothing that is going to convince people to stop prescribing puberty blockers to kids which is the whole bloody point. Looking at the crap data doesn't answer questions about whether the interventions actually helped.

You don't think they'd also like actual statistically valid evidence that the drugs don't work?

Define what you mean by 'don't work'.