Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 8

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-7

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

I’m reminded of the definition of ‘Natural Justice’ in The Mouseboks Family Dictionary: a phrase almost perfectly describing the contents of an unforseeably emptied diving pool. That is to say, something which is not almost nothing, but also painful.

Yes, agree and it has got to be the last circle of Hell, nothing could be worse.

Normally I am glued to these tribunals, just waiting for the next jaw drop moment or eye roll. This one, I'm scrolling on by half the TT comments because it's all so repetitive and boring. This witness, CA, is far too sensible and rational. How many times does the poor woman have to give esssentially the same answer to the same question. I hope she ha a large bottle of wine chilling in her fridge. She's going to need it.

And the X-gov Race Forum invited X-gov SEEN to present to their network. ED didn’t attend, but her spies reported back to her.

I just googled Caroline Airs and AI came up with a photo of Sigourney Weaver.

HH - move to bottom of 1181 to 1182. This is email from NW in natural England expressing concern to SW, Rob and Cally - who are steve and rob please?
CA I don't know
HH - the fact that SEEN still public in Oct only became known when Nick complained
HH go back to email 14 Oct
HH 1178 please. BT to JC and SMN flagging up information asset training. Where noted SEEN is public. Working page to 1117, there is discu between Carly and BT rec that groups who persist contravene policy will be given 3 warnings before deleted from Viva. In para 39 40 of WS

I think the judge is losing patience. Getting quite snippy with HH.

HH who are steve and rob please?
CA I don't know.

😖

that SEEN hadn't understood this?
CA - Steve dealing with migration remember it being said that a number of network groups hadn't understood that wanted them to remain private This didn't become appar. We mandated it once that come through [direct request from senior mgt]
HH - AM and EW attended training, can we look at that training at 1627.

HH gets paid by the hour, doesn't she?

HH - para 32 Miss Ayers (sp) WS. You say following Jan 23 complaints decreased managable levels.

So CA management process meant that the level of complaints (from both sides I assume) dropped significantly ending up at a manageable level

Sounds like CA is did a good job in a difficult situation?

Beth Gordon was (may still be) Efficient & Effective Senior Lead · Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Also mentioned online as Consistency Delivery Team Leader for Household Waste and Recycling at Defra. Referred to in post at 12.11 yesterday as removing some posts, not clear which posts or why.

God there are some weird gifs in the gif drawer.

HH mistaknly read from a note left by her window cleaners.

And They complained about this book? Nothing is to be allowed for women, is it? Nothing at all. What a boon genderism has been for these incel men.

HH - pres the training based on training?
CA handed out at training
HH explains groups stay private. 1630 difference between public and private groups - pte groups relate to protected characteristics does it not?
CA yes
HH reinforces diff between pub and pte groups, very obvs
CA - thought all group owners would understand that. Many didn't take on board this wasn't request but a demand. The groups were contacted to go back to pte. The info I was given was the SEEN immediately got back in touch and apologised said they had now complied with that

I know.
Absolutely fucking the point of the fucking book is about how the fucking world is designed around men.

I listened to a hefty chunk of this book in audio form (I wish they'd had a different narrator). I don't recall anything about "Trans" in the chapters I heard

Hopefully the one with the flame-thrower from Aliens

😂😂
Are Steve and Rob drinking mates with Pete the Plumber, I wonder?

HH - allow me one minute I don't want to repeat myself <me - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!>
J are you contending that they delib switched to public?
HH - don't accept it wasn't inadvertent

CA - thought all group owners would understand that. Many didn't take on board this wasn't request but a demand. The groups were contacted to go back to pte. The info I was given was the SEEN immediately got back in touch and apologised said they had now complied with that

So SEEN not the only ones that made the mistake and SEEN rectified as soon as they were told to. But still not good enough for ST.

No. Her clerk will have agreed a fixed brief fee for the first day of the hearing which will cover her time in preparation for it plus a fixed daily refresher fee for every day thereafter. So after the brief fee it's effectively a daily rate, whether she's 'on her feet' or not.

HH did you q AM or EW as to why they hadn't realised?
CA - no the tech team overseeing all of that, they reported a number of networks didn't switch didn't investigate why, just told to switch back. Nobody challenged if it was deliberate
CA no
HH - your WS section at p16. you've heard the posts read to NB about nature of Twitter posts and you heard her agree with me, that any internal codes that comments unacceptable
HH - you say DEFRA had no control over that. Do you agree if those posts breached code of conduct
CA not my area, but how DEFRA deals with external social media posts I don't know
HH - one moment.

HH - allow me one minute I don't want to repeat myself

Are you using 'last' as in outer most or innermost? I would think the innermost circle of hell is a ladies toilet full of those in spinny skirts, bad wigs and fishnets constantly trying to offer one tampons, suggesting bra straps need adjusting, endlessly trying to borrow lipstick and/or mascara.