Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

HH Yes. My computer screen is frozen.

Oh dear what a pity.

Maybe it's playing possum😄

😂

From TT:

<reposting a tweet so the follow on makes sense>

HH 2023 survey. There is a later 2024 survey also. You are aware of these surveys - annual government administered surveys done for about 15 years
CA yes
HH To the later survey please, statistical bundle
J To the 2024 survey
HH Yes. My computer screen is frozen.
J 376 when you

can get there.
CA Apologise for fact I am technically inept
J Not the only person in this room...
J [to CA c how to search for page nos. Bar at the top}
AL Or possibly down the side
HH This is 2024 survey. Few more pages further - 378 - indicates number of respondents

D'you think she's just peaked her laptop? Frozen in disbelief!

HH I am going to go to a number of docs in this bundle
J Don't want to waste time
HH Could get electronic version.
J So in order to deal with your qs the witness will need access to laptop.
HH Yes
J And you want to be able to do this now
[ they find a laptop for the witness]

Should have thought about that yesterday when you let HH go on for hours.

CA Apologise for fact I am technically inept
J Not the only person in this room...

HH seems to have lost her train of thought, and AL suggest she might find it if she " looks down the side".

Why is J allowing her to go to this survey? It doesn't seem relevant. I get she is trying to prove that the strenght of feeling was anti GC but she's already made it clear that strenght of feeling does not equality make.

great challenges faced by t colleagues

The mostest greatest of challenges, th really bigly challenges, never in history have such enormous challenges been faced by any other cohort of humankind, their challenges have indeed been so huge that they haven't even managed to make everyone else bend over backwards to accomodate them, so mahoosive and deafening that nobody has even heard of them.

I am so done and I don't even have a teeny violin.

Well that's where to look if you've lost the remote control, so a fair suggestion😃

From TT:

HH 350,000 people have responded to survey. [response rates for the surveys are in the 60%s]
HH I am looking for a reference in here indicating 17% of t staff experienced B& H at work compared with 7% non-t staff. We can see in summary of the report

HHH KCL did some analysis of data between 2024-25. We can see within the foreword of report Tamara Finkelstein former perm sec introduced this analysis. LGBTQ staff face higher rates of b, h, discrimination etc
CA Believe has always been the case shown in surveys

17% of trans respondents say they were subjected to B&H. How many made a complaint that was upheld?

Spelling!

CA Believe has always been the case shown in surveys

😍

CA is a lesbian (the old fashioned kind, without a penis 😉). So it is plausible that she has GC people in her social circle. In my WRN group, there are quite a few older lesbians, who are, understandably, upset about what GI has meant for lesbians and same-sex attraction.

I'm not saying CA is GC. I don't know what her views are, but she will definitely be acquainted with GC arguments. And she is retired too I believe, so she should be less cautious about returning to the dominant "work culture" as it's been called earlier.

Is her witness statement available yet?

HH using outright activist language now 'Cis'.

Might the judge ask her what it means?

And is the survey even open to EAg with it not being CS, HH?
Comparing whole of CS to DEFRA sneaky. Also no real controls on how many times anyone can complete it. No unique link per staff member.

Here you go!

From TT:

year on year. Figs are always different for people with gi, and sexual id as well as ethnicity
HH To KCL analysis. Summary records t men and women experience higher levels of B & H than cis staff. TW experiencing high rates in particular - roughly three times rate as non t

<just waiting for TT to catch up but I've been punching the air!>

I wish they would stop saying B&H, makes me want a fag.

I do miss smoking.

Exactly!

Does B&H stand for 'battery and harrrassment' .

And how much if any was due to them being trans.

Breaking and h'entering, milady.

Ok, TT are obviously having a moment, and while they catchup (edit to add and the court is on a break) I will share my observations - it doesn't surprise me that a PP has said that CA is a lesbian. She's a woman of a certain age and build with a sensible short hair cut and a world-weary seen it all air. I like her a lot.