Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Is filibustering a legitimate technique - is it the Judge's responsibility to manage the tribunal if a barrister is attempting it, or is it just 'hey ho everybody does it'?

Thank you, Caroline Airs, and shame on you, Helen Hogben.
That is all.

Ah, so failing the first rule of contemporary notetaking: State what happened without interpretation or emotion.
sad times indeed.

It's clear she doesn't mean TM and NB people.

The GI side really don't understand the GC side do they

I don't think the judge is supposed to allow it but that hasn't stopped him so far. He's let HH maunder on and been very short with NC.

I would say it’s very much not a legitimate technique. Barristers are officers of the court and must assist it in its primary purpose of furthering the cause of justice, not frustrate it.

Oooh this is an interesting intervention by NC - transmen are women. Let's see how this plays out!

From TT:

CA - disagrees. quotes EW.
HH - she not saying TM can menstruate.
CA - only people born female. She'd describe anyone born biologically female as women.
She's refusing to say TM menstruate.
NC - simply not fair that's not what WS says.

J - looks at WS

J immed reaction is what was meant by that phrase and posts might be best put to EW. This witness can't say what someone else meant.

HH if what is mmeant is a refusal to accet TM or NB people can menstruate that is denying the reality of TM and NB people

CA - she'd refer to anyone biologically female as women. GC belief focuses on biological sex.
HH by only referring to them as women, denying reality of TM.
CA - choosing not to call them men.

there's only one cornetto left in the freezer

🎶 Just one Cornetto, give it to me 🎶

HH if what is mmeant is a refusal to accet TM or NB people can menstruate that is denying the reality of TM and NB people

Chaff floating off in in the wind.

Is this exchange really happening.......😱

HH "she's denying that transmen and non binary people can menstruate"

CA: No, she's referring to people born female as women because GC views are predicated on biological; sex" You Freak!

If I understood it correctly, was it not the SEEN women post about gender not being a PC but not including GRA? Which could be understood to be misleading exept that they weren't, I don't think, talking about GRA but gender identity which is not what GRA is aboot.

I just can’t believe the dross HH is coming out with. You’d think she’d be embarrassed to say such ridiculous things. Just making up things that will probably be referred to as ‘genocidal’ next.

HH if what is meant is a refusal to accept TM or NB people can menstruate that is denying the reality of TM and NB people

Huh??? What is HH on about

From TT:

HH & clerk passes lap top to witness

HH row 148 of moderation log

<note, given how much HH has relied on the SS of Doom in cross-examination, it's extraordinary that it wasn't originally submitted in evidence>

J says hold up "my session has just expired"
CA says I know how that feels.
J finds place.

HH EW 1 Feb 23 post - theme of only women menstruate is repeated again "Just men and women. that's it. No other. Only women menstruate. Like the Alice Cooper song. Only women bleed. Good song too."

HH - not reviewed by moderation panel (mp) for 3 weeks. When reviewed agreed NFA.
AL - post is not in list of issues, pleadings. Concrend as outwith issues.
J Post [not in bundle].
AL - broader allegation on moderation (mod).

That's made me go for a mini Magnum!

Yes, they are only mini ones - but there are six of them in the freezer......

J says hold up "my session has just expired"

CA says I know how that feels.

Comedy Gold!

Bring me the rifle.

J says hold up "my session has just expired"
CA says I know how that feels.

Arrgh - I thought they weren't supposed to be getting into the details of GC beliefs and what is a woman?

Yet here they are.

Not for long...

Didn't somebody comment (many threads ago) that the spreadsheet of doom had 250 lines (we're only on line 148)!!!

.

HH finds relevant section. 1.1viiid.

Ye gads, that numbering.

That's because it's not NC raising it. Duh.

Why is this being allowed to continue...what is the judge thinking?

Totally farcical.