Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Goodness me.

HH Thank you. It's that Friday pm feeling and it's only Wednesday

You've only got yourself to blame for that love.

J Did you think feeling of threat was cos of misunderstanding of GC beliefs.
CA Yes - cos commonly held view

😮 Wow. Someone said this out loud and nobody died. Will the police be there to arrest her on the way out.

What has any of that data got to do with anything........yet the judge says he's happy.

Yes. One of the points on which I have sympathy for C. Encouraged for a long while to believe unconditionally in their precedence, that their feelings were paramount in all situations and always the trump card, that heresy was intolerable evil - and it looks like an initial response confirming that, focused solely on C's wishes - which then changed radically when DEFRA realised the serious discrimination they were indulging in.

Distressing and unfair to have done to C from the off.

Although this is always the thing with transactivism: eventually everyone has to reach a point of the unavoidable 'no', and the longer the pandering has gone on, the harder the 'no' lands when it finally has to be said. #bekind? No. Not at all.

From TT:

HH Section re why reporting levels dropped - this is t CServants - 64% said didn't believe corrective action would be taken (similar to non t), - a higher rate of non-t officials said B&H had dropped.
HH To Stonewall survey commissioned in conjunction with YouGov

HH [to doc] 21% t people wouldn't report transphobic bullying in the workplace.
HH To questions.
HH This data shows t people experience higher rates of b& h in CS compared to non t
CA Yes
HH Feel less included
CA y

HH Significant number don't report B&h
CA Y
HH And two-thirds don't think would be dealt with
CA Yes
HH were you member of CIPD when at work
CA Do
HH Have you looked through stats bundle
CA Yes, but not a statistician
HH [p 134]

Assuming h&h is b&h, how do they know it has risen if reporting rates have fallen? Surely they don't know about the non reported alleged cases to be able to quantify them? If they're just subjective and possibly malicious answers to a survey, it doesn't seem very rigorous.

"It shows further divergence in discriminatory trends for TW - risen - while TM reported fall."

That's because - and I apologise for being indelicate - nobody gives a fuck about transmen.

(And that shit's fucked up too)

Why is she rambling on, she's lost the plot.

OK...

They are not my feet.

Or because female socialisation means they're not doing things that require people to say no to them.

Phew!

@murasaki exactly right but I didn't want to dirty edit, thank you

True.
It is only one of them.😁

From TT:

HH [to p 140] Prejudice and discrimination. CIPD research says 40% LBGT staff think employer policy inadequate
CA This is all workplaces?
HH Yes
J It's also February 2021
HH Yes. More of a submissions point re t colleagues

HH Phrase here bringing whole selves to work. LGBT colleagues find this more difficult. Mental health problems as result.

CA My hesitation is over increasingly. I think all of these have been issues for a v long time and when I was in cab office before joining Defra we were doing work around LGBT harassment. Not saying not true, but I don't see where increase is.

I can't see the judge reigning in HH from flogging her dead horse this afternoon. He was falling over himself to let her have the break she requested to sort out the mess she'd made of her page numbers. No reminders about wasting time there. Complete contrast in the way he deals with NC.

J It's also February 2021
😃

She's starting to sound like Alan Partridge when Tony Ayres says he can't have a new series.

Relieved an adult has entered the room. Bravo CA!

Party like it February 2021

When you pander to each and every demand, just slowing down the pandering seems like bullying and harassment. You just have to keep jumping higher and higher and higher until at some point, everyone comes crashing down to earth.

From TT:

HH {reads:] [missed]
HH T and NB being seen by others as they see themselves.
CA Not sure c this.
HH [p 79] I've lost page numbers. On to TUC report c B&H of LGBTQ people in workplace. [p225]
HH Will have to review this in morning. But ..
J Come back to it otherwise

asking q with nothing to refer to
HH You've read ED's statement
CA yes
HH Her statement reinforces in relation to t people in workplace, risk to mental health as result of discrimination
CA Any discrimination has effect on mental healt

A Stonewall survey isn't exactly independent evidence.
I bet A:gender were egging their members to complete all these surveys with a particular slant.

Monkey tennis!

Crocs do socks?! It seems I'm not pissing the S&B board off to my fullest potential.