Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 6

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-5

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

J we will not take sides

Surely he's going to have to at some point.

Of course, I think @fanOfBen has to step down before 12, so I’ll go and get ready for that time.

Yes, it's the bastard mouse that sets mine off too. I am searching for a small mouse, but alas, in vain.

From TT:

comments that you were unwilling as an org to call out as bullying
NB it may have been a neutral post, but we are an inclusive org, that's how I work and how we want to work in DEFRA
NC DEFRA policy on GI & inclusion, can I speculate that it is stalled because everyone is

paralysed by fear of reaction of trans activists.
NB I wouldn't say that, we are waiting for the Cab Off to share model policies, there is a piece of work we need to do in response
NC FWS handed down in April 2025, and the work you need to do to take account of ruling that sex

Oh wasn’t someone else offering too? Sorry!

Just to add FFS Judge!!! Again!

Thank you. Sorry to be a nuisance. I am feeling so much better today and wanted to contribute.

.

Does a mouse exist that is more like a pen than a mouse? I'd find using a pen-mouse easier.

The judge seems terrified of being seen to be biased if he shows an understanding of how TRA ideology operates; or even if he acknowldges it.

EDW is not the complainant, ST is...so maybe he think he has to show more sympathy towards them?

you’ll get plenty of chances in the rest of the week.

Good luck in fixing your pool @Jimmyneutronsforehead !

From TT:

in EA means biological sex, you're still working on it
NB yes
NC you say you are sympathetic to C's distress because others don't see as C would wish, is it reasonable for someone to be distressed by this
HH [interjects not heard]
J asking for an opinion, not sure we're going to

get anywhere
NC the assertion by C that the visible presence of GC colleagues in the workplace, is incredibly bigoted
HH I don't think this is appropriate
J bigoted is very strong word, how will this help us
NC Rs had a long standing policy of indulging a group of employees in

The Intervenor is joined to the case. She has been granted a right to participate. The judge's numerous and repeated interventions to silence NC, cut her off, control her language, forbid her from using certain words and phrases are surely grounds for appeal.

NC the assertion by C that the visible presence of GC colleagues in the workplace, is incredibly bigoted
HH I don't think this is appropriate
J bigoted is very strong word, how will this help us

Will you stop policing her speech!!!

😡😡😡😡

Incredible. Contrast with the scurrilous, unevidenced things HH was given free rein to voice, ad nauseam.

At this point NB doesn't need to answer any question as the Judge will answer for her.

How is this allowed?

"We will not take sides "
Seriously?
I would argue that compelled speech and compelled pronouns are very much not neutral acts on his behalf.

The judge is policing her language. In a case about policing language. How can the judge not see this??

I'm sure either ST or ED used the word bigot to describe a GC colleague in their evidence...

I've had decent success in staving off discomfort with one of those ergonomic-ish shaped computer mouses (mice?) that's pretty much completely upright with the click buttons vertical so my hand remains in a natural position when using it.

[for BB and Ickky]

Wasn’t ‘genocidal’ used? Flippin’ genocidal.

The amount of insults that were aimed at SEEN and gender critical beliefs by HH has been astounding. Yet NC is not allowed to say anything it seems.

From TT:

the workplace, various networks it had made a monster in workplace
J your client's view is that the GI is a monster
NC my client's view is that one side of the debate has been indulged to the point that it is now very difficult to deal with them

J I understand that you are trying to demonstrate that the GC has been treated less favourably because of those beliefs.
NC yes
J can we do this less emotively and just focused on the facts, you are putting propositions to the witnesses that they struggle to agree with

My note: anyone with high blood pressure should go and do something else

The judge can FOTTFSOFATFOSM

NB it may have been a neutral post, but we are an inclusive org, that's how I work and how we want to work in DEFRA

So inclusivity means bowing to the heckler's veto against neutral positions?!

And if their motive was really just to 'take the heat out of the situation' it was effing foreseeable that all they did was encourage the bullies to continue the bullying