Do you avoid the bathroom if there is a transwoman?

[PeachyDaisy]

I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a transwoman attending. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them?

Plenty distasteful enough. It perfectly possible to defend womens right to privacy, dignity and safety through the provision of single sex spaces without punching down at the tiny, tiny percentage of the population for whom it's just not that simple as XX=woman, XY = man. People with DSD are not, and have never been, the problem in womens toilet, changing rooms etc

Men with DSD very definitely have been a problem in women’s sports (and the associated changing rooms).

Men with some dsd's are a problem in women's sport yes. But this thread is about bathrooms. Do you want to give examples of how people with dsds are a problem in womens bathrooms on anything but purely ideological grounds?

Men with DSDs are a problem in any womens spaces as they are men, male.

Some XY DSD conditions have female bodies though. So they belong in women’s bathrooms, not men’s.

Swyer women can carry a pregnancy. It is unsurprising to see sex realists apply their sex purity beliefs on them, though.

I'm sure it's not beyond human wit to sort out toilet and sports access etc for people with DSDs if there is the will to do it fairly and scientifically.

There should be agreed sport standards and proper tests, that protect women from having to compete against people with male physical advantages.

There could be agreed standards for use of men's or women's facilities, and a card, issued by a doctor, which can be carried to confirm access permission in case of a challenge.

There should then be penalties for misuse of such a card or for providing it to someone who is not eligible (because there would almost certainly be some attempted abuse by people without DSDs.)

All of this could be done without reference to trans issues at all.

Swyer Syndrome only affects females. So you failed again.

You and other posters dragged them into this. As a way to shoehorn males into female spaces. What do people with VSD have to do with the trans debate? Why are you upset you’re getting pushback?

Did I? When was that?

Having exhausted every other possible argument (little boys in women’s loos, pregnant women using the men’s in an emergency, yada yada yada), this is the only bit of the whataboutery envelope left for them to push.

Yeah. It’s quite sad in a way. I thought we’d got over all this “sex is a spectrum” shit years ago but maybe some people didn’t get the memo. People with VSD know exactly what sex they are.

People with VSD know exactly which sex they are

Do they get together each year and vote?

Sex is not a spectrum and humans cannot change sex but neither is it entirely as neat and tidy and simple as you may wish it to be. That's the difference be science (in this case biology) and ideology.

Yes sex is that simple. There are two sexes. People with VSD are either male or female. They are not some mysterious third sex. Why do you think a male with a VSD should or would use female spaces? What does all this talk about VSD have to do with transpeople? Of course people with VSD know what sex they are? Otherwise how would they know they have a VSD?

No they don’t. If you have a Y chromosome you are male.

People with DSDs are not a problem. Males are a problem.
And what on earth have DSDs got to do with males claiming to be trans-identified or not, wanting female spaces and prizes?

Chaos gremlins. There's a hell of a lot of them about in the activist movement, much like 'anarchists' who have no interest in actual anarchy as a political movement but just like wrecking things or arguing to tear everything down as it's meeting their own needs somehow.

Wangle with the words, wangle with the categories, word salad at length, insist there's no meaning and everything's so complicated and argue and argue and argue....

to what end?

Women need single sex spaces. The End. And they have this right in law. Precisely to protect them from those with no respect for women and obsessive personal agendas.

In how many cases? Force teaming a very rare vsd with ( in Mumsnet speak) a hairy handed trucker who feels like a woman is your cruelty not women's. Phenotype with vsd can rarely pass for the opposite genotypical sex to people hyper vigilant through experience. Tra's have only increased that hyper vigilance through aggressive action and an inability to hear the word 'no'.

Sex is based on gamete type not chromosomes.

Not if they are SRY -ve. That is why the new Olympic testing is not just karyotyping. But that doesn’t stop sex being binary, fixed or known for those with DSD.

At least some of us on this thread are posting because some others seem to know little about DSDs and seek to ban everyone XY from women’s toilets and changing facilities and allow everyone XX in. See the quote in the post above mine. Sometimes (rarely) that approach doesn’t work because DSDs are involved.

Others have said that in theory they would allow those with relevant DSDs access, but in practice they would not…that they are now drawing a hard line because of trans ideology.

Obviously it is concerning that a small minority with medical conditions are potentially being discriminated against in this way, online or in practice. When you protest against that discrimination, even though you’re GC, you get accused of not knowing sex is binary (of course it is) and of trying to shoehorn trans identified males into women’s spaces (absolute nonsense).

Males With DSDs should also stay out of female spaces. The fact they have a DSD is irrelevant, they are still male.

Chaos gremlining in action.

Women need single sex spaces. No wangling. No 'but it's complicaaaaated', just let women have single sex spaces and leave them alone.

Yet another example of the destructiveness of GI.

If TRAs hadn't used DSDs for their own selfish gain there wouldn't have been this focus on them. People with DSDs suffer because of trans ideology.

But you still haven’t explained what people with VSD have to do with males with a trans identity using female spaces? Are you saying all these trans identified males have VSD?