Do you avoid the bathroom if there is a transwoman?

[PeachyDaisy]

I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a transwoman attending. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them?

Well bully for you. So I guess you don’t see any need for single sex spaces anywhere then do you?

It’s a toilet at a work event, not some random public toilet. It’s very unlikely he’s going to launch some kind of sex attack in the middle of a conference surrounded by his bosses and colleagues.

And the disabled toilet is a single occupancy fully enclosed room - last time I looked. So your argument is pointless.

Why would a bloke want to go in there in the first place?

I wouldn't use the disabled toilet because it's for disabled people. As for the rest, it's very personal.
I would reformulate it like that:
I’m going to an industry event next week and I know there will be a men attending, who in my country is allowed to use the female bathroom. Should I use the disabled bathroom to avoid an awkward encounter or just continue to use the women’s and hope not to run into them? Because this is really the essence of the problem.
Different women will have different level of discomfort-comfort in sharing the toilet with a man, and nobody should decide for you where the boundary is. If you are asking the question, I think you are experiencing some level of discomfort, in that case I would choose a single person (but not disabled) toilet, or go together with another woman.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
Women have never been sexually harassed at work, ever!

Never, ever!

If it's an adult event, then yes, I would generally wait until they weren't in there.

Many years ago I worked with a trans identified man, and after a few awkward encounters in the bathroom (trapped into 'girlie talk' or inappropriate questions - something I am completely unequipped for personality-wise) I started watching to make sure he'd just been before I would go (or I'd take a walk and use a different department's toilet).

To make it clear about why I say adult events are different, and not painting all men as perverts, if it was an event with children I was supervising, I would go into the toilet if he was there specifically to ensure that they were OK/not scared by a man in the toilet.

I’ve personally known three trans people and I can confirm that yes, they are just trying to live their lives.

Ok so that’s conclusive then? Because you know a sample of 3 then there is no threat?

No I don’t

Toilets have been separated by sex for a long time - what seems like 5 minutes ago charities were running campaigns to ensure women and girls had them in developing countries. Personally I have no idea why some people want to give them up.

As he's using the toilet at a work event, why can't he just use the men's where he belongs?

It's not like any of his colleagues are going to do anything to him in there, is it?

Any man who knowingly uses a female only space does so knowing that he is overstepping a boundary that is in place for the privacy and dignity of women, quite aside from their safety.

And while it may seem like making a fuss about nothing to some posters, the fact remains that single sex spaces are meant to be used based on sex not clothing / appearance / feelings

You’re saying “trans” instead of “men” to gloss over the issue.
Most men are ok, but we keep them all out for safety and privacy. Men who identify as trans are in fact as likely to commit sexual offences at the same rate , if not more, than any other man.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6182901

Any man in a dress who wants to use women’s single sex spaces is by that very fact a predator.

By the time I was eight I'd learnt enough to turn and walk straight out of the toilets if a bloke was in there - it's not worth putting yourself in that situation. Why didn't anyone else learn this?

It’s a feminist board. We enjoy robust debate but feminism by the very nature of the word and those first 3 letters (Fem..) means that we are united in centring females.
That is the focus of feminism.

Would you go to a Muslim board for Muslim people and berate them for talking about Muslim issues, or criticising their beliefs?

Depends if he appears to be the kind who gets thrills from being in women's spaces. You can usually clock them because they have clothing a real woman would.be criticised for wearing. Stiletto heels and stockings are a favourite. Autogynophiles are way more common than the old fashioned gay man trying not to be gay.

So if you enjoy robust debate you'll be open to all sorts of views! You'll notice if you read properly that I didnt actually post a view on the transwoman in loo isse at all. I was merely saying that the 'on this board we' approach came across like an echo chamber and people should be able to post what they like.

So we are in agreement...woohoo.

And as much as you may like it to be, this board isn't only for feminists, or females, mumsnet is open to all. There isn't even anything pinned to say its mainly for feminists ( as there is in, eg the black mumsnetters board). It's just you saying that, not mumsnet.

Which is fine right up until the point that them "just living their life" involves them appropriating things that are not for them because they're men not women

This!!! All the "oh but it's a work event what could pooossssibly happen to you at a work event you fully meanie women" surely very equally applies the other way - what could possibly happen to this man at a work event in the men's toilets?

I would avoid it, yes. There are people on here sayng he's just trying to live his life and perhaps that's true.
But every trans woman in the world will be aware there is 'controversy' over toilets and that there are a lot of women who would not consent to him being in there.
That means he's already willing to override a 'no' from a woman and do what he wants m.
At best he's just entitled and doesn't have any nefarious intentions. Its still a giant red flag. I'd avoid, same as I would any male who indicated he didn't respect women's privacy or consent.

No I am saying trans because they are trans.

There’s no credible evidence that trans people are more likely to commit violent crime.

Most large-scale research doesn’t show higher rates of violent offending among trans people. What it does show consistently is that transgender people are significantly more likely to be victims of violence than cisgender people.

This much more credible study in the American Journal of Public Health (2021) found transgender people experienced about 86 violent victimisations per 1,000 people, compared to about 22 per 1,000 among cisgender people.

Analyses of mass shootings in the U.S. show transgender perpetrators make up a tiny fraction (around 0.1%), far below their share of the population.

Reviews of crime data generally find no evidence that being transgender is linked to higher rates of violent crime.

A lot of the idea that trans people are more dangerous comes from misinterpreted statistics - see your study- and selective media coverage of rare cases, or political narratives. Theres no solid evidence.

Herman, J. L. et al. (2021), American Journal of Public Health
Williams Institute (UCLA School of Law) research summaries
FBI crime statistics & analyses of mass violence datasets

I'd avoid him. Find a toilet further away or take toilet breaks when he is occupied.

I've never had this problem but share loos with men all the time with no problems. Lots of places I work in have individual cubicles but then you find yourself coming out or going in at the same time as a male colleague. It's a bit more awkward than a female colleague but not significantly so. I CBA to get worked up about a trans woman

The fact that you're using a completely unscientific concept like cisgender automatically makes the grounding for that study a bit suspect.
Categorising people on whether or not they comply with gender stereotyping (and thats all that 'cis' is) is absolutely nuts.