"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 6

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct; AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct; TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)
Thread 5, 31-Oct to 04-Nov; JB (day 8), SW, CG, JR (day 9)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, NHS ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager
AT – Anna Telfer, NHS Deputy Director of Nursing
SW – Sandra Watson, Matron for General and Elective Surgery
JR – Jodie Robinson, manager of Rose

Too many.

Andy, Andy, Tracy, (Gillian EDI) and Sue today.

Have I missed anyone?

The idea that I could only take my cue on if he sees himself as female is by my meeting him in a single sex space in a state of undress is just madness.

I know quite a few young autistic males with very poor theory of mind and a very confused sense of sex vs gender in that they’d not deny being male sex, but that womanly feelings mean they’ve a female gender and they demonstrate that by choosing female names, wearing makeup and wearing skirts etc. They also blithely go back and forth between sex and gender in language and actions but ultimately believe they ought to / have the right to enter fsss because of their ‘female gender’.

In these young men, it’s part male entitlement, part obliviousness to how they’re perceived (and likely not caring about that), part feeding off of the celebration of their ‘authentic’ selves lauded by others, and part genuine confusion because of our oh so helpful captured medical, educational and government institutions repeating ad nauseaum that you SHOULD use the facility you’re most comfortable using. Even asking them, do you want the female or male wards etc.

It’ll take a long time to row back on these entitlements and expectations. Men hate being told no esp after being told go ahead and transgress as many boundaries as you want.

From TT

NF This is yr S statement giving custodians of docs, listing various names. On p406 u see a sentance re not searching for various docs and refs certain words. Not every custodian used every key word in the list
SW The email I sent was to those ppl and were asked for these wordings

H&S considerations for those pesky nurses: 🙅‍♀️

One annoying man constantly getting his own way: 💁🏻‍♀️

Just as an aside, observing these cases really brings home that if you're anywhere near anything that even has a whiff of HR involvement about it, let alone something that has the potential to end up in a tribunal, you:

• take full notes, including who said what, when and in front of whom;
• get everything down in writing and keep a copy; and
• make damn sure you've done your bloody job and can prove it to a judge.

God above.

I don't know why, but the Jaws theme started playing in my head.

Surprised by an attachment, indeed.

😁

From TT

NF As well as other key words, were key words specified on this list
Only those. The key words [missed - sound]
NF If every custodian searched for every word it wld have been unmanageable
May have been. No advice was given to them re filtering

NF Were u advised re what might not be relevant SW SW We sent e'thing across, so no
NF [new bundle at p33] We see concerns are defined and then reads re concerns being reported in 1 month
SW Yes, is the expectation
NF Various duties are allocated incl manager being fair

My connection is almost certain to go.down but I'll catch up with TT very quickly.

I’ve recently taken the notes in a grievance hearing, and the decision isn’t going to be upheld. So it will probably be appealed.

I am making damn sure i do everything correctly.

Hugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grubb...

NF [reads re speed and being in house]
SW Yes, I agree NF In house means not in the tribunal Yes
NF Were u aware that concerns re RH using the CR had been raised back to July 23 SW Not before the Ix. I became aware when became the Ix officer in July 24

NF They raised their concerns or Cx w Ali Quinn
Yes
NF Wld be at an informal stage
SW It cld do, yes
NF [reads from policy]
SW Yes, AQ was one of LMs
NF They were told to put up w this due to inclusivity of NHS Yes I heard from their evidence

NF So not resolved to their satisfaction
Yes NF So we're looking at going to stage 2
SW Yes, if not resolved at stage 1 wld go on
NF Up to manager to resolve
SW Yes, I was involved at stage 2
NF It doesnt happen then, not until July
SW Yes. That's when I got involved

From the Times article… “This is because I have the anatomy which requires them, unfortunately.

From the photo, Rose looks quite broad shouldered, is Rose also tall? If so, that would be a v intimidating presence.

NF U have to establish the facts. If witnesses frightened that wld undermine Ix?
SW Some ppl might feel that. It cld do in some circumstances
NF [sound issues] In bundle 3 on p292, this is letter sent July 24. It says [reads re trust allocating an ext Ix officer]. They're not named.

Huge thanks to all the previous c&p ers

NF When was Miss Newton named
SW We wrote to letter sigs after this letter and Susan Newton's name was incl then. In Aug/Sept time.
NF Do u know there was corres w solicitors and their attendance at interviews
SW Not about SN.
NF Go to bundle 1

It's interesting that he makes a big deal of not walking round wearing just boxer shorts. No one said he did. They said he wore a scrub top and holey boxer shorts, both of which he's admitted to doing. That's DARVO at its most DARVO-iest (if there's a better word than that, someone please tell me.)

NF Letter from PS in July 24 asking for the name of IO (Ix officer) and asking for attendance. Were u privy to this
SW I cant recall this
NF Response saying no
Sw Not w that reply [sound glitchy]
NF Do u recall this [another doc]
SW I dont

SW Trust received in late June
NF The policy didnt allow or prohibit solic attending
SW The T wld maintain the position as outlined in the policy. Have never had ext ppl in an internal Ix
NF Do u recall [sound]
SW No
NF Looking at Roses's grievance (Gx)

@Justabaker

Thank you so much to TT. It’s such an invaluable service.

When you say that the statements are only available in the tribunal room, is that the room we can see where this tribunal is taking place?

………,

This room is locked and non-court people asked to leave during all breaks, however short. So, the only chance a member of the public would have to read the statements is when witnesses are giving testimony or J is addressing the room. In addition to this the room is often at capacity, so the public cannot be in there at all.

NF Also go to bundle 2 on p449, an email from u to Miss Newton on 17 July. U say attach the ?. My understanding is u communicating Roses Cx under the resolution
Correct
NF On 29 July u interview RH with Her related to the Gx
Yes
NF Just the Gx exclusively
SW Yes

She’s a buffoon.

Not the brightest this one. And another believer.

The incompetence (whether it was wilful incompetence or just cos they are stupid who knows) in the HR department is shocking.