"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 5

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, KD (day 1 of evidence) and BH (day 2).
Thread 2, 23-Oct to 28-Oct; BH (day 2), CH, JP, MG (day 3&4), TH, SS, ST, LL (day 4), JS, AT (day 5)
Thread 3, 28-Oct to 29-Oct, AT (day 5&6), TA (day 6&7)
Thread 4, 29-Oct to 31-Oct, TA, AM (day 7) JB (day 8)

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge Seamus Sweeney
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
SW - Sue Williams, NHS Trust HR
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, claimant
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
CH – Carly Hoy, claimant
JP – Jane Peveller, claimant
MG – Mary Anne (aka Annice) Grundy, claimant
TH – Tracy Hooper, claimant
SS – Siobhan Sinclair, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust
ST – Sharron Trevarrow, witness for the claimants, retired from Trust, former housekeeper and wellbeing officer
LL – Lisa Lockey, claimant
JP – Professor Jo Phoenix, expert witness
JS – Jane Shields, witness for the claimants
AT - Andrew Thacker, NHS trust Head of HR
TA – Tracy Atkinson, NHS trust HR.
AM – Andrew Moore, NHS Head of Workforce Experience
JB – Jillian Bailey, NHS Workforce Experience Manager

TT

SC I have no further Qs
J That takes us to the end of the day I think. I have yr witness timetable. we have Sandra Watson at 10am on Monday. I've read [anothers] statement
SC I dont want Sue Williams to be in the middle of giving evidence when we have next Thurs off.

The kicking-out timing shows how difficult it would be for the women to avoid Rose. He has access to very many women who are taking their clothes off, according to these figures. No wonder he is happy in his job.

TT

SC We have Prof Phoenix on Monday
J Do u have an idea of how long y'll be NF?
SC U have 4 hours down!
SC We have to wait for Prof Phoenix, and possibly give submissions on Mon am if we have her on Fri
NF There are arrangements in place for Prof P which have cost implications

Oh my she mentioned lesbians all very worried about RH being excluded might mean them,

She made that fucker up, has been reading/ watching TRA stuff.

Besides this has not been submitted as evidence.

She seems to think that her thoughts beliefs and opinions are capable of some sway

what an absolute. Arse.

the 2 Andies are looking quite glum and red

In response to J saying to NF about not going back over the same issues in the evidence coming up:

NF: "I'll try to feed you as little cold porridge as possible."

TT

SC I have no objections if that evidence is given remotely.
NF I'd favour short answers
J We've had one witness by remote from Scotland. Can we discuss that unless a pressing need for her to be in person. If we can deal w her on Fri by CVP. See you all on Monday.
SESSION ENDS

Of course she has! I'd bet my house and all my savings that not one single lesbian thought a biological man not being allowed to change in a woman's changing room meant that somehow they wouldn't be able too

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1984280699361427777.html

I am feeling a twinge of empathy for Cheetham. He got the short straw with these defence witnesses.

Still no mention of Rose appearing as a witness?

Well, where to start....what an absolute shitshow

She’s saying she had lesbians coming to her asking if the nurses were also objecting to them using the changing rooms. This is entirely trans activist fabricated nonsense. I wonder how NC would have responded to this Q.

Yes, she's well schooled in all of the ideological false assertions and talking points.

I've seen loads of witness give evidence in ETs relating to genderism.

In a crowded field I'd put TW down as the most unpleasant.

Totally. I wish she’d been challenged on this.

I do wonder what it is that I don't understand about transgender, which if only I understood it would make me unconcerned about sharing a women's changing room with a male?

That question, in a nutshell, sums up the entire TRA vs TERF debate. As far as the TRAs are concerned your refusal to understand what must be understood marks you out as either evil or stupid. If you are evil you must be fought, and if you are stupid you must be ignored or re-educated.

The difficulty comes when a person of logic an intellect tries to figure out what that which must be understood actually is.

Don't you think the lesbians would have noticed them objecting? Which they wouldn't have been because, and I know this hasn't occurred to Darlington NHS Trust, they were objecting to having a man in their changing room. A man, we now know, who had stopped taking hormones and was back to being masculine and who was watching them changing. But hey, no need to investigate that or to ask RH for his side because it wouldn't be a comfy conversation.

Something tells me RH will not be attending in person. What do others think?

Happy birthday, Francine?

😆😂

AM not even pretending to be taking notes….or even just taking notice!!

I really wish the Judge hadn't confined Fetto there. I wish he could have said - so there are false statements in Karen's witness statement - please expand......

How the nurses, HCAs and housekeepers who brought the claim can work near this woman I do not know. Nasty.

She made so much of her 130 happy ladies piling into the laydees changing room all pulling their trousers down for Rose without a single issue. Clearly in denial or a massive bully who will not stand for any dissention.

I hope Karen can take her allegations against her further. Calling her a liar in open tribunal is beyond the pale.

She was so hostile and making claims which were demonstrably untrue, she might as well have argued the claimants case for them. She was a walking demonstration of everything the claimants said about the atmosphere at the hospital.

Yes, it seems unclear at this stage that Rose will show.

This is why it was so well done by the Sandie Peggie team to name Dr Upton as a second respondent.

So no-one asked Rose. Wouldn't it be hilarious if, assuming he's a witness, someone finally asks him if he'd have been okay with a separate CR and he says, 'Yes, it would not have been a problem'.

I don't actually think he would have, but he should have been asked. It's insulting to him that all these allies were so patronising towards him.

I dont think he is coming. Esp since he has been off sick.