"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

Here's Andrew in action. I like to put face to a name when I'm reading TT

https://www.facebook.com/reel/951735789757649

AT Sen Lead Team is a mgmt forum. ANy operational issues delt w by SLTs. OPAC is an assurance c'tee to board on op issues. NF Wld a poor policy count as workforce issue? AT Cld be. Indic Cx wldnt be disc at Employee Relations or OPAC

It really doesn't surprise me...

But redder in the face and there is definitely no smiling.

AT OPAC do approve policies, yes. It recommends policies to the board for signing off. NF Trust is member of a regional board, then the NHSE which is overseen by Wes Streeting Yes NF Changing topic...

AT said the Trust guidelines provide a threshold for counting as a woman, that's "living their life in the gender they ID as". If that would mean that a man who is seeking to father a child would fall short of the threshold, will the Trust now declare RH to be a non-woman?

It doesn't surprise me. I actually know a head of HR (in the public sector) socially, and he says at that level it's all about schmoozing with the board not operational, and at that level misogyny is still rife, so they want another chap to deal with.

I'd be willing to place all 32p in copper that lives in my purse that an EqIA was not done.

NF p405, document disclosure. Is a statement by Sue Williams (SW) for the trust. AT Yes, have seen it before. NF Please read the 2 pages of it. So u were informed of disc obligations? AT Yes, and performed on mobile and computer using the key words

Probably not given the recent GRC case where apparently getting pregnant didn't mean you shouldn't get a GRC saying you are a man.

NF Did u reveal? AT Yes. I disclosed whatever I had on the searches. I didnt chose what to provide. NF The trusts solicictors then managed? AT Presumably, yes NF We may return to this. U can put the bundle aside. In para 40 of yr WS, u say u knew nothing in 2023 of concerns

True.

Have a look Schedule 22 contains provisions to allow certain acts that would be otherwise unlawful. Such as adjustments related to pregnancy or post berth for eg
It is not all about disability.

Schedule 22 does not mention reasonable adjustment. ‘Reasonable adjustment’ is restricted to disability under the equality act. Schedule 22 talks of actions that are required under other acts not being in contravention of the equality act. Which is very different from the concept of ‘reasonable adjustment’.

Colour me shocked. Possible missing documents

Can check that for you…hold on…

NF Nothing before April 24? Yes NF U had a briefing that u used w execs on 5 April. #Correct? NF No records of the exec mtg not the 2 briefings u received? AT Likely to be only a convo. Letter addressed to Morgan Smith but due to Jobshare was reasonable to cc to me, as a brief

Also how did they establish that RH was living as a woman? What was the criteria?

or oversight. I understood she was overseeing this. A series of emails from op director became aware of concerns so I briefed the exec directors. It was an informal mtg on Fri pm w exec directors. NF No minutes taken AT Is more of a team mtg rather than formal one

Using the women's changing room?

Déjà vu all over again?

NF How much did u know? AT Aletter but not aware of mtg in April or in March NF Aware of sim concerns since July 23? No AT Not until letter from MS. NF Had yr knowledge expanded? No. Just the letter and how to handle concerns, via resoln method which is how we do things.

Tone of witness now a little petulant.

Bingo On Holiday

I think we've just had a couple of points on the bingo card. There's a whiff of undisclosed documents and 'it's a job share' equivalent of reversing into a bin excuse .

😂