"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

AT Yr suggesting ppl can enter.. NF That's not my Q. Is about threshold u apply to F only spaces. The less demanding they are the greater the antic risk must be by bio men? AT Meaning? NF Voyerism, assault.. J We're drifting into discussion here

It frustrates me beyond belief. This man received a complaint from TWENTY SIX people on this topic. It didn't occur to him that there might have been others. It didn't occur to him that they might have a point.

But but but, she says she's a woman! What's the problem?

NF AT is highest ranking along w Morten Smith whether Cs right and reasonable saying entry criteria too low J which Cx NF Within the trust. AT has to deal w the Cx. The Cs say criteria are wrong J Saying I understand their Cx re not wanting bio M in the CR

Here's the fella

Yes, I was timing it based on the rate of posting of during the previous witnesses, and had to attend to a work thing briefly. Thought I'd get away with it!

I think at this point, it really shows that NF is a man and is arguing from the male perspective, however well meaning. Whereas NC and CE instinctively know the most effective questioning strategy.

I’d like NF to get AT to admit that RH is a man, no matter the magic words he uses.

OMFG yes you could, that is the point.

Twenty six women though - that doesnt count for anything in his eyes, does it?

J Discussions take up time NF The policy T in Workplace provided for access to toilets, shower and CR based on GI. Yes? So cld use women's for all of these based upon self declaration? AT Is an expectation that living their life in the gender they ID as. Dont have the policy here.

This guy is completely unprepared. he had given no attention to this complaint. I have no idea how this has gone as far as him sitting in a tribunal and he's only now considering some of the questions put to him.

AT Isnt same as me IDing today as a W NF I'll come to that. Greater risk of exploitation w lower threshold? AT That cld apply to anything NF Yes. We'll move on. How many staff yr responsible for are nurses? AT 4K of which 80% likely F although managers are responsible

I am now ranting at my DH.

Ditto!

Did I read correctly? He's a head of HR? And doesn't think this has anything to do with religion or belief? So he's not familiar with GC beliefs?

I have a strong feeling that NF has Pete's brother waiting outside.

An even manlier Man

He is called Manny!

NF So many are weaker than M, cultural sensitivities and difficult experiences? AT Yes NF Health, safety or welfare or a policy, if thought wrong u have responsibility? Yes, we'd investigate NF U say 25 yrs exp handling Cx and disc processes?

Not watching, but thanks for the updates. This head of HR sounds like a total nob head.

I'm ready!

Has this guy got a wife, girlfriend, daughter? He's got a mother, that's for sure.

AT Overseeing processes. Earlier on wld be in Ix. NF U manage Tracy Anderson. 3 heads w different portfolios report to me. NF Gillian Bailey reports to Andrew Moore who reports to you? Yes. Also Alison Nicholson reports to me. Is a vacancy of deputy director below me that I used to occupy

This guy is far too (self) important to attend to these matters, he has PEOPLE to do all of this trivial stuff.

AT In absense of deputy they report to me. Has been there a while. I jobshared w Morgan Smith before. So deputy 3 days a week and Dir 2 days a week. So I managed dep directot then. We didnt appoint NF U deal w governance [describes the board responsible to council of governors]

It always surprises me that HR is generally all women, but the Head/Director is usually a man.

NF Clin care groups with own triumvarate? Yes. CCGs respon for clin service delivery. One is operational manager, one medic and one nurse NF Trans in the WP applies to all groups? Yes NF U refer to OPAC, a subcom of board that reports on KPIs etc Yes