"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 3

[AuthorisedCat]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Link to Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5432103-darlington-nurses-vs-county-durham-and-darlington-nhs-trust-tribunal-thread-2

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.
The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets
The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.
Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany
Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

I got in without a problem at the start. Still in.

I have no trouble at the start of the day, my problems arise when we get booted during breaks. I am using the app today on my phone to see if that makes any difference

His responses from yesterday lead me to conclude he's taking this very personally. The responses this morning (as reported by TT) do seem to be following the same pattern as yesterday. He's a senior person representing the Trust (the most senior Trust witness? can anyone confirm?) so should be representing the corporate body, not himself.

SC - we’re not saying that was an act of victimisation itself.
NF - this is 17 July 2024. Bundle 3 p 77. 7 weeks after initiating resolution procedure. Process is underway but hasn’t gone anywhere for several weeks.

AT - I met with Miss Newton on return from leave.
NF You attach the two letters from complainants. I’d like you to investigate

There is a feeling that this witness is pissed off having inherited this shit show from his predecessor.

huge amounts of hypocrisy - on the one hand, they believe their policies are right and fair, on the other hand, they mustn’t be exposed in the press…

why the panic about the articles before Rose’s name came out? Unless they weren’t so confident that the laundry they were airing was actually white… they knew exactly what they were doing.

NF - it’s quite a vague inquiry.
AT - it wasn’t for me - it was for the investigators.
NF - did you consult or meet with the grievance holders?
AT - no

NF - another letter then went out. P 263. Says from you’ve commissioned an external investigating officer. This is the notification the complainants get of their own procedure.

We are going to need a bigger bingo card for today. An hour in and his responses as per TT have already included a sick colleague, a retired colleague and his own leave.

What's a darker shade than burgundy?

No bincident yet today? Sad times...

Exactly.

Does this help: https://icolorpalette.com/color/puce

NF - they’re left out of that. External investigating officer you don’t even name. Goes to 25 signatories.

Apols typo 26.

AT - between Morgan and I , there was a letter intended to sent to C Gregory , but it didn’t get sent. There was an attempt to get the template form to provide us with more information and my understanding was the claimants had declined to complete the form.

Burgundy’s very on trend at the moment….

Farrow & Ball do a deep red called Bamboozle.

WTF “more information” did you need?

there’s a bloke in the women’s changing room. End of.

Symptomatic of the entire movement.

'We absolutely believe what we do is good and right. And we absolutely do NOT want the general public to know, or to have to answer any questions about it, or to face any conversation about it unless it's so hidden in jargon and pretend language that the actual reality of it is completely obscured from us'.

Never the guts to own it.

AT - this is our own T internal process.
NF - the nurses all 26 got that letter advising resolution process underway

NF - but this is a grievance process.
AT - essentially the same
J - I’m a bit lost why this point

The only excuse he has't given so far is:

"I had my head up my arse so couldn't see or hear anything"

He could have gone in and shut this down by removing RH from the changing room, citing the workplace regulations. It makes you wonder what on earth the legal team were advising.

Just about caught up and going to miss the rest of the day.

There was a man in the woman's changing room.

This was causing distress to a lot of the staff.

Providing gender neutral facilities would be too expensive.

A small alternative provision had been identified.

So far so good - all that had he needed to say was inform trans person they should use the new gender neutral changing area. He didnt because he didnt care about anyone but the man.

Oh, how I love this.

NF - 619 bundle 2. Letter from Sue Williams 6th August. Refers to an investigating officer about Rose’s complaint. We’ve heard the reference to disciplinary procedure was intimidating.

AT - a standard ACAS letter.
NF - those who got this letter would understand the two (Rose’s letter also) would be linked.
J - is it predictable though

I should imagine it IS hard to hear anything when you've got your fingers in your ears and are determinedly shouting "LA LA LA".

I think he and the Trust thought that TW are litigious so didn’t want to get into that shit show. So they banked on the nurses not being so litigious, but boy, did they miscalculate the strength of the nurses’ hurt, betrayal and anger at the NHS for putting them through this.