"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 2

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany

Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

Ten minute break. Well, that witness testimony is an excellent development.

Isn't it just. Undoes all his work trying to paint the nurses previously as nasty gossipmongers motivated by spite.

Perhaps coincidentally, but helpfully, J had a quick chat with JS in which he said he'd not seen her before and she agreed that this was her first time in attending the hearing. So quite possibly she wasn't following the evidence yesterday.

Just joined, was the break needed because SC was thrown by the witness evidence?

I'm in. Phew!

No…. It’s been the Judge’s habit to call a break to discuss with his panel members whether they have any questions for the witness.

@nauticant I have just sent you a PM - under a different name.

I wonder if he’s discussing with his solicitor whether to accuse her of making it up. I think he has to “put it to her” that this is untrue if he’s later going to argue this. I’m not sure that’s right though, maybe a litigator will chip in..?

TT

We return
J Mr Brain wants to know about u not telling others re the convo w Rose. You mentioned Pam and Lesley. Do u know if they spoke to others?
JS Not that I'm aware of, no
J Yr retired
JS No I work for another trust
J Yr an anaesthetic nurse?
Yes

Yesterday, when cross-examining LL and addressing the "rumours", SC said (according to TT) "We have nobody coming to Trib who RH has said anything to". Glad to see that trounced by JS.

Has NF said today that they may not be able to fit in JP? Big mistake if she isn't called. Couldn't she appear via video, if necessary?

TT

J Did u know the other Cs
JS I knew Tracey from theatres, and knew others to say hello to in a professional working r'ship
J It's hard to remember times. U recall the convo towards end of 2020 but when were u first asked to recollect it
JS I remember in 2020 by an anaestheist

Bet JS is very happy she doesn’t work for that toxic NHS Trust any longer.

TT

J When did u first tell others about recollecting this convo?
JS I've never been asked it before this setting. Prob March 2025. I was asked if I could remember anything about this case.
J How?
JS BH asked me if I had any memory. When I heard if any concerns before leaving the trust

TT

J Why ask you?
JS As they were bringing the claim. I'd always supported them. We were v aware of disparity in the staff. Ppl didnt feel comfy in the CR. We discussed in breaks. And w my family.
J Were BH etc present then?
JS No as in a separate unit and stayed in the dept at lunch

I can't comment on anything which TT hasn't mentioned, but it might be that the tribunal running early might cause problems for witnesses who are not local and need to travel a long way.

ie witnesses have booked time off work and transport for the day they were expecting to attend. Short notice changes might be difficult, but they could still come on the original day.

Irritatingly I am still WFTCHTJ. This happens regularly when there are breaks.

TT

J NF, do u have any Qs?
NF Yes, I do. In the evidence of BH's WS in p179 of supplemental bundle. The context is BH said u knew each other from work and were SM friends. She messaged you re yr support not being unnoticed.

I think that's a typo by TT and should be March 2024. She said March 'of last year' which would tie in the timing of the complaint.

TT

JS She'd looked after my father. I'd reposted something she'd shared and she messaged to say the support hadnt been unnoticed and I said I was pleased something was happening. And sending support as she'd also lost her g'father.

That's what happens to me when I'm on my ipad. I just go back a step and rejoin. The clerk is then v quick to let me in.

TT

NF [reads]
JS Actually it was her grandfather.
NF [reads re whole situation being surreal]
JS Absolutely
J Is that the date of the exchange? 25 June 2024? Is that correct?
JS Yes. I'd left the trust then but aware he was still using the F CR

I don't want to jinx things but have to say the clerks and general management of this hearing have been excellent.

I have to break off for a while now. If nobody picks up I'll come back for a while later.

TT

J Can I clarify. Page 179-80 convo re BH's g'dad. Looks like is in 2022. Then a big gap until 2024.
JS Yes, that's correct.
NF Nothing further.
J U can take a seat at the back or leave
J Now we have Kirsten Coutts? [takes affirmation]

I guess that now, if RH does give evidence, the claimant's counsel can put to him that counsel for the NHS has been saying the fathering the child stuff is unsubstantiated gossip, and then ask whether he agrees with that or whether there is actually some substance.