"Darlington Nurses" vs County Durham and Darlington NHS Trust Tribunal Thread 2

[ThreeWordHarpy]

Link to Thread 1, 7-Oct to 23-Oct; pre-hearing discussion, evidence from KD (Day 1) and BH (Day 2).

Five nurses working at Darlington Memorial Hospital have filed a legal case suing their employer, an NHS trust, for sexual harassment and sex discrimination. The nurses object to sharing the women’s changing facilities with a male colleague, Rose, who identifies as female. The NHS trust’s HR department dismissed the nurses’ concerns, stating they should “broaden their mindset” and “be educated”. More details can be found at Sex Matters and at Christian Concern who are supporting the nurses via the CLC.

The hearing started on October 20th, with evidence starting on October 22nd and is scheduled to last 3 weeks. To view the hearing online, requests for access had to be made by October 17th. The hearing is being live tweeted by Tribunal Tweets who have background to this case on their substack. An alternative to X is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

The Judge made clear at the start of the public hearing on Day 1 that only TT or press have permission to tweet. If online observers see/hear something in the court that isn’t reported by TT, we don’t mention it until the next time there’s a break. This is a very cautious approach to avoid any accusations of “live reporting” on MN. Commentary on the content of TT tweets is fine as soon as they’re posted on X.

Key people:
C/Ns - Claimants, the Darlington nurses
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
J/EJ – Judge/Employment Judge
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for claimants
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
CG – Clare Gregory, ward manager
KD – Karen Danson, first claimant to give evidence.
BH – Bethany Hutchison, second claimant to give evidence
AH – Alistair Hutchison, husband of Bethany

Other abbreviations:
WFTCHTJ – Waiting For The Conference Host To Join
ET - Employment Tribunal
DMH/H – Hospital, Darlington Memorial Hospital
CR/CF - changing room or facilities
IX - internal investigation
XX – cross examination

OK, application done. I just need to hobble to the loo and then when I'm back I can do this. Thank you all !

Compared to other ETs we've seen this one is unusual in having so many claimants. This has given it what seems like a muted start, so far it's just been SC seemingly working from a template to pick holes wherever he can (although not in boxer shorts) and to minimise. We're likely to have the same nitpicking of the evidence and cases of the claimants one after another for the next few days.

This is why we've not seen discussion of the actual substance of the case.

From our point of view, the real business of the case starts with claimants' counsel cross-examining the respondent's witnesses. That's currently scheduled to start on Wednesday.

They did.

I've noticed that they are not very punctual, even when they say a 10 min break its often more like 15 to 20 mins.

Looks like there is some movement

I was starting to think my screen had frozen.

@Justabaker TT is still saying the judge is REJ Robertson - are we sure about that because he apparently retired in May. The order signed regarding the directions for online access were signed by a Judge Sweeney, and there is a Seamus Sweeney EJ in the North East...

😄

Seems to be the norm with these tribunals!

From TT

We resume.
Next witness MG
Some discussion about documents and numbers of copies

The judge has a clear Northern Irish accent. My money is firmly on Seamus Sweeney.

From TT

MG sworn in.

From TT

J - confirms she has witness bundle.
NF - looking at p48 that's you? If you go through to last statement, your signature? Correction para 22. So that says '15 July...received letter', what is should say 'I was shown'
MG - I didn't receive, but I was one of the ones who went to

From TT

..media'
NF - are the contents true
MG - yes
NG - bundle 3

NF - page 363 - 365. Sent to resolution process?
MG - yes
NF para 25 of witness statement bundle. p53 last page para 25 you say '...wellbeing meetings...someone I knew' There has been a doc added to witness bundle. Is that a health and wellbeing note with you?
MG yes

I've forgotten - how many of the Supreme Court judges in the For Women Scotland victory were men, I know the court was not all women but was it all men?

Doesnt necessarily matter if this judge doesnt really get it as long as he knows the Supreme Court did.

From TT

NF who was that with?
MG - I've had a few diff meetings have had with Claire and Sharon.Sharon would have signed this def with Sharon.
NF is this how process works
MG - yes. Meeting with Sharon, Claire would sign it off

3 men, 2 women

From TT

MG - every now and then Sharon would check in on you to see if you want a wellbeing meeting.
NF is this meeting August
would you have seen at time
MG yes
NF shown at meeting?
MG yes

NF -see at end of meeting and sign it
MG yes
NF - going in to it, the entry most relevant on 2nd page, about the 3rd box, q about it, what's on your mind about work, you said Trust not taking concerns
NF what is referring to?
MG the RH situation, in the CR and how we felt

From TT

NF - no further questions
SC - you are a full time nurse band 5 and you worked at the Trust since summer 2021
MG yes day surgery

SC - in para 2 of your statement you set out shift patterns what you did and what you now do. Let's go to encounters with RH in CR, 'one morning summer 2023...turning round seeing RH' before we get to what you say there, this is the first time you have met ?
MG yes

What other witnesses will there be? I know there are lots. There will be the fragrant Rose, and presumably HR?

Ooh and an expert in single sex spaces

From TT

NF - nSC why not met before, shift patterns?
MG - yes
SC - so we understand, so a long shift, you go and get changed before 7 to get change? 5 to?
MG yes
SC would you have any reason to go to CR during day
MG sometimes to get something from locker

SC - 'one morning in CR' 7 in the morning?
MG can't remember
SC in bundle, can you go to p307. The map of CR. Helpful to see where your locker is. You are next to CH next to SH, see where RH locker is marked
MG correct

SC - on day you saw RH refer to plan, where was RH standing
MG in front of his locker facing locker.
SC - at the end of para 'he was gone' did RH walk anywhere else apart from locker to door
MG not on that occasion

SC - was RH in the process of getting changed
MG - when I got to my locker I can see bench behind locker, put back down, hear RH voice, raised voice, dark pair of boxer shorts.
SC getting changed
MG - assume so. Looked away
SC - noticed RH going out after?

From TT

SC was RH wearing scrubs
MG yes
SC did RH say anything to you, look at you
MG no
was RH on phone
MG not I'm aware of
MG assume he was talking to someone

From TT

SC prob someone else there as you heard RH talking
MG yes [missed a sentence]
SC you say para 7 of statement, after that encountered in CR several times, experienced anxiety. You dont say any way inappropriate - staring..

MG when I entered always look out to see RH there, when RH there. Walk in second doorway, if I see him at his locker, I walk in toilet area, look in bag, kill time for him to leave

From TT

SC - I want to be clear exactly what allegations you are making. To help us I need you to find Vol 1. Page 117. Can I be sure what allegations you are making against RH.
The first one, use of CR
MG man using CR

Myrtle you are a warrior