Women's rights general conversations - Thread 10

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 9.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

The EHRC is going to be hardline about it. Another article said they the EHRC ruling means trans people can't use single-sex spaces. Yes they can. They can use the men's. I think there will be a push for neutral spaces which will be costly when actually men need to not be violent to other men who like to wear dresses and make up.

The second article also wrongly stated that there is no law about providing staff toilets for men and women. The HSE regulations are clear that separate facilities for men and women must be provided and if they can't be provided then they must be lockable, flush ceiling to floor doors and contain a sink.

Love Kathleen Stocks letter to The Times. I agree with every word of it.

the 'how do I live in the female gender' thread in chat let me know that people with a GRC are 0.012721243836392% of the UK population. Which is interesting.

Since the SC ruling, there's been an astounding influx of Righteous beautiful glowing souls of loving kindness desperate to performatively flagellate us for WrongThink and deliver knob halo-polishing intellectual masturbations about how Complicated sex is. I can't imagine how we all coped without their masterful input.

I've seen a few 'while you're celebrating spare a thought for the poor tw'. As if women would have got any consideration if the verdict had gone the other way. Possibly they'd have tossed a few 'sucks to be you, bigots!' our way and started threads to gloat.

Thanks for this article! Reminded me to get SR's book too!

It's like a TRSOH Greatest Hits of 2018 Bingo around here since the judgement.

"Tiny minority"
"Intersex"
"Sex is such a complicated spectrum"

and suddenly everybody remembers the transmen.

It's quite remarkable, isn't it?

Even the fox botherer has suddenly remembered transmen. Not as actual people, of course, just as a theoretical construct that predatory men can use as an excuse for entering women's spaces. For some reason he seems to think this is a good argument for letting transwomen in instead. You can see why he's lost so many cases.

All four of them!

I came across this! Feudal Japan and hauntingly familiar

http://youtube.com/post/Ugkx4RuFK3d_uKq4jYMNhEtiG6Tu-bxP56Um?si=DnWkVDxhglNOo7jY

Like death and taxes, fuckwits are always with us.

The local Oxfam bookshop has a window display including Richard Dawkins' Greatest Show on Earth (the evidence.for evolution); a complete set of Harry Potter hardbacks; and they've just added - front and centre- a very nicely bound (green and gold) copy of A Vindication of the Rights of Women.

I must pop in and compliment them.on it.

They previously had a window full of dinosaur books that seemed significanrly timed, but once could have been coincidence.

Love the feudal Japan piece!
“In disputes with other families, some members of my feudality seem to make claims as extreme as insisting a heron is a crow, only to feel needed by their relatives and subordinates. They act as if to stake their lives despite having no intention to do so, just to push through unreasonable demands. Their behaviors have become significant sources of stress for me. That’s why I have established these laws.”

Tweet from Rest is History Tom Holland.

https://x.com/holland_tom/status/1913891166589689973

Since I initially fell in love with @HadleyFreeman’s writing for its wit & lightness of touch, I found the darkening of her tone over recent years very painful, & her columns all the more influential on me as a result. I’m happy she is (maybe) happy again

Glad he said it, not surprised at his take, sorry he didn't say more sooner.

The Oxfam bookshop has added to the window display. Vindication still front and centre, with this added beside it. Note the top left quote in particular.

Nice one, that's pretty clear.

Today I came across this think tank that uses open data to support legal arguments, run by veterans of the US military (a link from the Guardian)
They have several cases going on, one other seemed reasonable from the outlook (against Neo-Nazis), but they have also this case going on about Libs Of Tiktok. I grant that this is often an annoying account and there is tons of hyperbole. (I sometimes check what they are doing through Twix/Nitter, not on Tiktok itself).
Now what I’d like to focus on is that they present data where they think Libs Of Tiktok made wrong accusations and compare this with the real events.
www.taskforcebutler.org/dragoon

Also they try to track how many “hate events” happened after LibsOf Tik Tok posted something.

Then we have the case of the placards and threats about VAGW and feminists in particular, from the past days and the police basically said at first they have no idea what’s going on and aren’t going to follow up on that. Aren’t there so many surveillance cameras everywhere in the city center that you could figure this out quickly? It is almost an unprecedented march for violence against women (who won’t shut up); I think there should be much more outrage about that. If you’d replace the word “terf” with any other religious or ethnic group, they’d compare it to riots.

What I'm trying to do is contrast one with the other and show that they use open data to build their cases; and couldn't that be done the other way round, too?

My second, related point is:

There’s a phenomenon I’m observing for which I’m missing the keywords and am trying to figure out what the concept behind this is. Perhaps someone has observed this, too.

I see posts on Twix, Insta, Facebook.. by T (add alphabet here as applicable) campaigners who are exasperated about “false” accusations against their community. Phrasing topics that were discussed for example on FWR or by Mr Menno in depth and with receipts, like they are things which feminists are making up. Things like “no-one is medicalising children”, “of course drag queens in kindergardens are just there to expand the children’s horizon, there is nothing untoward about it”, …

(I wish I kept the links to posts as examples, but it was from random scrollings of feminist twitter where they responded to others
Some examples are also in that taskforcebutler-link above, that they say there was no violence from the T community and the accusations about groomers are taken out of thin air).

They try to look reasonable and as if the problems with real examples that have been discussed in feminist circles are crazy things that are only said to discredit them; posing as if they want to tell their followers: "now do you see what I have to deal with on a daily basis and the depths the GC go to in order to ruin our reputation”.

Of course it is clear that not every trans person is connected to the problems we’re discussing here, and this is not a character attack on everyone, but there are some social media figures who frame every problem like this and I’m wondering if they genuinely think that despite lots of evidence to the contrary or if they are part of a disinformation campaign.

Does someone have an idea what concept could be behind that?

As far as I can see from the people I know on FB and Threads who say things like this, it is an almost wilful refusal to actually investigate in depth any of those issues because to do so would be unkind.

The Pagan Federation AND the British Druid Order have both come out as anti women rights activists.
As a pagan who was a member of both, I'm absolutely furious. I questioned if they'd read rhe court ruling, and rather than answering (the answer is no, because they called women bigots) they banned me.

It's ironic that witches are being silenced and excluded in pagan spaces.

That's outrageous. I'm sorry 🙁

Sorry to hear that @SwordOfOmens Once again, evidence that

𝔗𝔥𝔢 ℜ𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱 𝔖𝔦𝔡𝔢 𝔬𝔣 ℌ𝔦𝔰𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔶 𝔯𝔬𝔱𝔰 𝔶𝔬𝔲𝔯 𝔟𝔯𝔞𝔦𝔫

I am absolutely convinced that 'TRSOH' is a faith-based position which essentially is the same as 'God is on our side'.

Not sure what this says about the Pagan Federation and the British Druid Order...

That's a good way to express that; those posts sound to me like someone gently laughing how others could assume that these things happen under the cover of unicornland. I was just baffled because the pattern reminds me of narcissists who deflect everything.

@SwordOfOmens
that's a punch, especially considering the role of women in paganism and Wicca.

I've clawed my way back into the British Druid Order and I'm calling them out, carefully and using their own ethics against them. We shall see. I've also started a pagan support group for pagan refugees!

I lost my temper with the chaperone thread. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't actually mean chaperone, but just seeing the word used over and over again in the context of 21st century women gave me the heebie jeebies. The Taliban would approve.