NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #20

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It is planned that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18
Thread 19: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274571-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-19

O. M. G.

Just when you think at least NHS Fife can't fuck up any worse.

I agree it looks malicious, but knowing the NHS it could be extreme incompetence.

A demo would be good.

They really do want to create a situation where no one can complain because the words don't exist don't they? The 'next' SP can only say there is a woman in the women's CR or risk the sack for misgendering and how can that be a complaint.

The absolute fuckers. I'm furious at their pathetic attempt at censorship. Do they really want SP to drag their sorry arses into court again?

I don't understand the logic of this.

Are NHS Fife reasoning that they can't defend their position in court because their "investigation" hadn't reached a conclusion and the disciplinary process hadn't been completed? So they are completing it with this final act of madness meeting?

If clever mumsnetters could elucidate please.

It feels very malicious. But also very stupid?!

This is the one which came to my mind.

It's utterly gobsmacking. NHS Fife seem to be so determined to burn the witch that they're throwing what little credibility they still have to the wind (not that there was any left)

I hope there is a rational explanation, and maybe it's not the full picture. Has it been confirmed by a reputable source?

What the everloving fuck is the NHS Fife team thinking? They cannot be this stupid, surely?

Jumping back to thread 19 and the incoherent Times piece,

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/trans-doctor-tribunal-nhs-fife-beth-upton-sandie-peggie-x3bkw259v

oldest archive: archive.is/uaytg

Maya offers multiple corrections and observations about it.

x.com/MForstater/status/1891093060844470397

Does NHS Fife just want to give Sandy ALL the money? Can any legally-minded wims tell us if this is even do-able?

Under what law is calling a man a man a sacking offence?

I thought it was legal now to have such views, and presumably following on from that to sex a person correctly.

This is just so bizarre. But the TRAs must be hopping with glee tonight. There's a thought to ponder.

My favourite reaction from X so far:

Yours works better!

She's one of us!

Appalonia · Today 19:49

‘Sandie Peggie..is understood to have been told to attend a conduct hearing on Friday which her employer has warned could lead to her dismissal’ ( due to her ' misgendering ' Dr U

It's as if they didn't know that Maya Forstater's EAT established a legal precedent that mistergendering is not illegal. It's as I'd they don't know that you can't sack someone for behaving within the law.

It's also as I'd they have taken no notice of Sandie's tribunal so far and are unaware that Sandie's judge agreed that she and her team may happily refer to Upton as he, him and a man.

It's as if they want to do the utmost to tank their own case.

Shocking.
Is she obliged to go to the meeting? Can she take representation with her?

Hang on, his own KC and the judge misgendered him, on more than one occasion.

I was hoping for a calm few days but this is unbelievable, particularly in regard to them not being able to do anything about him admitting what he did in court.

My gast is completely flabbered.

Madness

How can they be so stupid? I wonder who is behind this? Some Militant little Tra who is furious Nurse Peggy didn’t get the good hiding they felt she deserved in court? This is malicious.

Twitter is awash with variations of "are they fucking insane!"

Crikey. Is this where we find out if misgendering is an acceptable manifestation of GC belief depending on context?

Another poster on one of the previous threads pointed out that potentially there was a misunderstanding that DU was claiming SP refusing to communicate with them about two patients risked patient care. However, ED? thought it was SP would refuse to treat a transgender patient was the risk to patient care.

So far DU has not provided sufficient evidence to enable the alleged incidents to identify the patients, and therefore witnesses bar the one already acknowledged. No one has given evidence of SP not being prepared to treat transgender patients, her only issue is with a TW in the nurses female CR.

If the hospital have more evidence that they haven’t disclosed I suspect the judge would not be happy.

I assume this is Fife hospital punishing SP for not settling and dragging them through the ET. This could backfire spectacularly.

This is Narcissistic Rage in action.

Maybe it's because they must at all costs prevent any other dissenting nurses within NHS fife from speaking up.