NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

Waaaay back.

SP did remove herself from the CR but her method was not good enough for DU as it was conspicuous and drew attention both to DU's presence in CR and to SP's discomfort with DU's presence there.

NC On any view, a convo was going to be difficult

ED Cant comment as wasnt going to have that convo

NC U cld see clash of interests between Du and SP. If SP was going to raise discomfort was obv going to be difficult

ED Wld never be easy, but cld be professional. Didnt set up

Yes, it's impressive. I like to think she gets home and indulges in some eye rolls accompanied by a G&T

And countless threads.

A quick lunch break hello from me @Jimmyneutronsforehead @HornyHornersPinkyWinky

Faye Russell-Caldicott is a pseudonym which I've mentioned in my updates (although that msg is probably buried under subsequent updates now).

There are different levels of anonymity, I'm more interested in keeping my real name out of the public domain because of past trauma, which is granted quite often, I think. If it goes my way, then no one would be allowed to publish my name, picture or other identifiers. I have not sought any other form of anonymity or 'hiding' details.

A little over 1k to go on the crowdfunder. This is just to pay for my legal representation in the 2nd prel hearing and other legal costs up to this point. I'm not expecting much to be left over, as I only campaign one step at a time. If anything's left over after paying fees, and I won't get anonymity, then I will direct the remaining small amount to another similar case.

mediation

NC Y'd been sympathetic to SP and were worried what the trust wld make of that

ED I was sympathetic to Sp's position of not wanting to be in CR

NC This risk exposing you as having same privacy views as SP

Dont think have the same views. I treat ppl as individuals

Isla Bumba is the DEI person who gave ED the advice.

LinkedIn suggests she was c.25yo and months into role at the time with no obvious b/ground in HR or law

Thank you @IDasIX - that's EXACTLY the kind of profile I'd pictured. Funny that.

got to correct that eye-roll deficit.

God she's dim.

I found Sadie's lawyer to be where eloquent when she said that the person previously known as Theodor was angry because Sadie refused to engage in "immersed role playing". That is a very correct way to put it.

NHS Fife seem to be entirely unaware (or ignoring) the fact that sex realist beliefs are protected as much or more than (WORIADS) as the batshit idea you can change sex (which Stonewall claims = pc of gender reassignment but unsure if this has ever been tested in law).

I'd try #13 or 14 for cross ex of Dr U

NC Were u hoping to bury yr earlier involvement in the IX

ED Absolutely not

NC Lots of bad consequences form Xmas eve

ED What do u mean?

NC Bad things have happened

ED Yes, they're bad things for any one

NC [lists consequences]

ED Moving to a diff area is normal process

have found Beth v persoanable

Yep. He would tilt his head and say how very, very sorry he was that someone's anti-trans views made them uncomfortable and how he would never, ever want to hurt anyone, even a bigot, and although it was very upsetting for him to have the conversation he would put on his Big Girl Pants and bravely soldier on with it until everyone reached the amicable conclusion of capitulating to him entirely.

ED knows full well she'd be horrified if she was stood in her underwear, or less, or even more, if he had walked in on her.

which included, as I recall, semi nude massages.

ED thought DU was 'personable'.
Covers a lot of things, that word.

I'm sure ED found Upton personable. He was getting his own way.

As a midwife I was once put on supported practice (not at Fife) and it was made very clear to me that it was not supervised practice.

NC Yes, but was unwelcome

ED But encounter was unwelcome too

NC Beth was harassing her by being in CR, which caused it

ED Beth a TG who was allowed in the CR

NC SHe complained to him about harassment and feeling uncomffortable. Caused all this

They really screwed Sandie over didn't they.

ED I think also comparing her to a convicted T rapist

NC All cos she wasnt prepared to lie that he wasnt a man. These consequences flow by following evid og her eyes and wldnt enter into a pretence that he was a woman anf undress

ED Sp entitled to her beliefs

so we - and NC? surely not!- maybe be misunderstanding the nature of the the 'supervision' offered to SP. Not as bad as it sounds?
edited to say:
Oh wait - just reread what I'm replying to and I got it wrong so scratch this!

Possibly not inaptly that made me think of JKR Dame Katy Denise and chair poverty 🤣