NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

I can see why people might be shuddering at propofol, but DU is still a Dr in training and will be supervised. He won't be left in charge of unconscious patients.

Theatres is also an area where some people stay a long, long time. There will be 30 year veteran nurses there too, just like Sandie. And I'm confident that they will keep a very close eye.

Though goodness knows how they will manage the changing room situation. I have a feeling it may well be under review.

https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/4eaef18250d0ec63

The press are very focused on the fact that Fife's own HR staff thought the suspension was unreasonable. Great comments again.

Wanted to hop on the thread before it gets full to say a huge thank you again to @ickky and @nauticant for their amazing work keeping us updated across these 2 weeks!!

And to JoMarch for all the Times BTL comments!

This has been a totally bizarre tribunal and I have been totally sucked down the rabbit hole of following it. Actually quite glad we have a break now, because being glued to my phone for updates is not great for my health and sanity!!

I've been tied up with pesky work this afternoon so just catching up but didn't ED say SP was the only person to have a problem with DU in the female CR but also that she had no idea that the incident between DU and A.N.Other in the changing room involved Sandie? Surely if ED genuinely believed SP was the only bigot
transphobe person with an objection in the village she would think Ahh SP when learning there had been an 'incident' in the CR?

There's nothing wrong with stepping back and letting others step forward for a while. Being active in this crazy stuff is utterly exhausting. But thanks, really thanks.

Where is he changing his scrubs now. 😉

Your comments on the Times articles were always spot on, thank you!

I think you did shed a light for a lot of readers

I'm a Dundee medical graduate from back in the olden days (long before the V&A and Discovery Point) and am suddenly feeling the need to take DH on a tour of my misspent youth. Is Fisher and Donaldson still going?

Yes - this is your moment!
https://www.tiktok.com/@jr._.clips/video/7322669002713599264

You fell down the back of the lockers in the female CR?

From my understanding, providing you have permission for forensic examination of the phone, compelled or not, you don't need the phone itself unless there's stuff locally stored. The rest of it is in the Cloud? could someone confirm?

@nauticant. I put some 'I stand with Sandie Peggie' and other assorted messages painted on stones in some appropriate London places today. Tee Hee

Rebecca Vardy's boat

Jks latest tome:

Arse still no photos

x.com/jk_rowling/status/1890450465063600510?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Upton's a man
And you're a bloke, too.

#Valentinesday2025 India🌹

Going back to basics here but what I can’t get over is Dr U in any way genuinely believing he has a right to use the women’s CR? I mean he KNOWS he’s a man. Despite his bullshit under oath in ET he does. He has decided to assume a different ID in his head. Fine. But how on earth did he then make that leap that he can now use the ladies CR because of what goes on in his head? It’s so weird

Inspired by the Valentine's Day poems by JKR and others -

Some haiku....

Sandie Peggie's trial
We all avidly followed.
18,000 posts.

Missing documents,
Attempts at controlling speech,
Oh, it's had it all.

One coercive man,
Nurses denying science,
Jaws dropped everywhere.

Now it's all over
Until July comes around.
Booked your AL yet?

This is what I hope the judge is saying to himself right now :)

Honestly I have no words (well I do but they’re all four letters and wouldn’t contribute much to discussion!), What a shitshow, poor Sandie having to navigate all this. But thanks to @nauticant and @ickky for keeping this so updated and for signposting other gardening opportunities. Been busy planting 😉

What date in July please, so I can remind myself to tune in from my changing room on the beach.

"special leave"?

He is in a bubble where no one is giving him a different perspective. Isn't his wife non binary? Given the way the entire Scottish establishment has been captured and the capitulation by his bosses to his demands, he probably never encountered any dissenting voices. He has probably been affirmed in his choices the whole way through.

It's going to be really tough for him trying to work out how much anaesthetic to give, what's the most suitable intubation tube size etc because it's not like he can use the sex of the patient as a guide, what with sex being nebulous 🙄

Theatre was my nursing specialism. Drs and Nurses there work very closely as a team, often for years and years, more than anywhere else I ever nursed.

Arguments happen and people don't take much shit. It can be a very stressful environment, especially covering emergency theatre.

I'd love to know how all his nonsense is going down with his new colleagues 😂

Oh I bet no one’s ever said no to him his whole life and having this pretend ID is just an extension of that. The privately educated, middle class, young white male somehow turns himself into a “marginalised minority”. What a twat