NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

Thanks Ickky for pasting all the tweets here, fab work

Finally caught up with today's threads after being out this morning. I've followed from the beginning and posting now to add myself to the numbers and to thank everyone esp Nauticant for the threads and Ickky for the TT updates. Been checking in to FWR for years as a lurker and thought I was well and truly peaked until now

I did not make the chocolate bigly. It did that all by itself

Best of all is who it is that is asking the question.

It appears the judge believes ED was indeed investigating.

I thought that too but the newspaper article has quotes suggests it was an HR worker at the trust responding to another HR person

Yes NC wants the metadata on the ‘contemporaneous’ nots and will be looking to find any more taking re patient safety incidents. If she can get an accurate date she can call witnesses who might be expected to corroborate SP’s alleged behaviour…..or not!

It knows me of old 😂

Wrong choice of words lol

Not at all 😂

Everything is backed up these days, everything. I never did quite get the RV North Sea thing. Wasn't interested enough to deep dive on it...
Regardless, it probably won't be granted, but just the idea of Upton hearing that after everything he has put SP through....

edited to say and remember - he is 'not a computer person*

😂

I watched this film last night: Behind The Looking Glass - FIRST EVER Documentary about the Wives & Children of Trans-Identified Men.

It is brilliant, terrifying, stays in your mind afterwards.

I feel sorry for Upton's wife.

ED - there were two aspects to the complaint, the changing room incident and patient safety angle, we were looking for solutions
J - what did GM say
ED - she said if it could compromise patient care, that would justify suspension

Very telling that she calls the patient safety incident an angle, does than not imply they're looking for something they can use against SP to justify suspension.

Good point and yes they will see if he was making notes about any other nurses, if so could call them in as witnesses as to how they felt

Perhaps notes on all the other women were doing wrongthink, before Sandie was selected as scapegoat/victim?

He couldn't remember exact dates of events involving patients so doubt he made notes of those.
My guess it's looking at BMA communication to see if someone suggested his complaint would be stronger if patient safety was involved

Im a lurker. Thanks to all who have worked so hard to let us see what a terrible time SP has had, and shown us what a frightful organisation NHS Fife is

Re the forensic examination of DU's phone. Whether or not it is granted, it might mean he spends less time feeling smug for these next few months

Thank you to @nauticant and @ickky for all the hard work. I couldn’t bring myself to follow live yesterday because JRs questioning of ED was making me so angry so I really do appreciate both the effort and fortitude in the face of such bullshit being spoken under oath.

Her LinkedIn page seems to have changed from yesterday.

She is a witness still to come.

Quite likely, yes. I don't believe she was the only one to back out of the room.

Another de-lurker to add to the numbers. I am in awe of the knowledge (and wit) of a lot of the posters on here which is why I haven’t given my two pennyworth. Thanks to all for the reporting.

There's a mahusive retcon going on, where they know that the patient related complaints were trivial and unsubstantiated so they're pushing the notion that Sandie not accepting Upton's womanly status presents a patient risk. Which of course it doesn't and there's no evidence for. By all accounts she was an excellent nurse.

Well the EDI training told a band 8 nurse on £60+ k a year that she HAD no other choice than to listen to the view of male doctor who says he's biological female rather than follow due process and hospital policy over suspensions.

Due to ED wanting Upton feel welcome, it was essential they assumed the worst of Sandie because they once saw her husband quoting Trump on twitter. Therefore she was suspended for harassing Upton, pending an investigation that didn't happen but then did happen with ED in charge but not really in charge.

Unless of course two or more other women agreed with Sandie, against the management position, about feeling uncomfortable and objected to changing with a man and were willing to risk their own careers and being sent for 'support' in the process.

Or risk being accused of putting a patient at risk (long after the fact, which clearly was a very serious incident due to all the reporting made at the time of the incident).

Meanwhile if a band 8 nurse also felt uncomfortable she could simply leave the changing area without fear of suspension because she didn't look stern and was in the cool kids gang who had all the power and could dictate who was guilty enough to be suspended for pre-crime.

Have I summed up the lunacy of what has been said UNDER OATH fully yet here?

Thanks ickky and nauticant 🥰🥰🍸🍸🍸🍸