NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

😆😆😆😆

Who needs Line of Duty. This is gripping!

J - did anyone come to you and say 'this is what you are investigating'
ED - no, I was investigating the allegations
J - how were you told to stop the IX
ED - GM told me because I would be called as a witness
J - once AG was appointed, did you have a handover

Ah, the investigation that wasn't, then was (yesterday), then wasn't (this morning) is now an investigation again. Which was stopped.

Although I'm sure DrU would helpfully explain that "investigation" is a nebulous concept, and that 5 year olds have differing levels of intelligence, so "stopped" is a dogwhistle . . .

Even if they don't get permission to examine DU's phone, the mere mention of it will undoubtedly make him panic :)

into April, should we fix a date for oral submissions, how about 14 April, solicitor not available
15 April then.

J - now working back from 16th july, by 2nd July can the parties send an agreed timetable or their version of the timetable

J - anything else

Absolutely, Alec. My first thought.

OMG an application to forensically examine his phone!!

NC - Also, applied to vary Judge Tinnions order to make it more specific, and we have applied for a forensic examination of 2R's phone.
J - would be good if we could do this via video, I better go get my diary, (checking his diary) 24-26 March is available
<back and forth>

he’ll be needing a change of his big girls pants

I assume they're thinking about call logs with the BMA.but it could hold other evidence relevant to the case re private conversations not mentioned.

And God knows what else.

J - no more qs.
JR - you mentioned one complaint from junior staff member can you describe that
ED - a junior staff, who thought that SP was nitpicking and finding errors, she felt she was pushed to it and called her something not very nice, I had to speak with the junior staff

Just to clarify, we know from earlier evidence that it was the junior staff member who called Sandie something “not very nice”, not vice versa.

I see someone on Twitter talking about whether the date of Isla Bryson trial and accusation that SP mentioned a rapist in a women's prison actually tie together. They say not.

J: Anything else?

REMOTE ACCESS!

As a PP pointed out, Schrodinger's investigation - you can't tell if it is or isn't until you open the box and then it might or might not be

Yes I felt ED and JR were implying it was somehow SP's fault that someone had been rude to her

How do we think DU's phone will meet it's inevitable demise? I'm going for dropped casually in the lake whilst taking a ladylike selfie.

Yes, and it was the junior nurse who was spoken to not SP.

NC - I would like you to direct the Rs to produce any materials they find as they find it,

JR - you haven't ruled on my order to vary

J - the order stands until its varied, I won't need to make any additional comment and if there isn't compliance that can be explored as we go

I wonder whether NC is serious about this or whether it's a gesture of some kind? I don't recall anything like this in any other ET, though I wouldn't know really...

Accidentally thrown in bin with left over takeaway and now pinging from a landfill

I can’t believe he doesn’t have it backed up to the cloud .

😲😲😲😲😲😂

a tenner says that whatever happens to the phone, its sad demise will be (said to be) his wife’s fault.

forward.

J - anything else

JR - the witnesses ordered not to look at anything on the case, they can't really help that, they know they shouldn't seek it out,

J - common sense needs to rule.

We will break now then.

Get 15 April in the diary.

In the event that other issues

pinging from a landfill - t-shirt!

JR - you say ED is flat, alleged you are afraid of certain consultants, what would you do if there was inappropriate behaviour ED - I would see the appropriate person in the structure to complain JR - how would you feel about having a difficult convo at work

Have to confess that I read that as "You say the Earth is flat" . . . and just accepted it as no less likely than any other exchange . . .