NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

He won't like that one bit. I wonder what else is on there....

I'm now imagining this to be going all 24 Hours In Police Custody, with phone logs and messages... ooh, exciting!

He did

J - difficult q, do you remember when you saw for the first time
ED - honestly I can't
J - as of 3 Jan all you have seen is hate incident, can you give us a rough date
ED - I'm sorry I can't
J - page 778, do you remember when this was first prepared,

Again, it hasn’t yet been clarified (I don’t think) as to when a “Hate Incident” as discussed in January became a “Hate Crime” as recorded in Trust minutes in March.

Who is 2R?

Upton

DU

Dr Upton, second respondent

Really? She damn well should be.

I’m not sure it was the ET as I suspect timing doesn’t woek
for that but for their own investigation now it included patient safety. She would be called to testify for the IX about what was said by whom and when but my feeling it was a ruse as what they really wanted was to get AG who was more able to massage the patient safety ‘incidents’ to the point to justify suspension. ED didn’t have the sophistication required and time was marching in so they needed to put in a FC justifying suspension to keep BU happy.

Do we think DU’s phone will ever be forensically examined as per the application? Imagine what’s on it…

I thought we'd had evidence that actually SP did communicate with Upton as appropriate for the situation

Literally, no. I thought she was. Google suggests you're right!

<more back and forth on dates>

J - back to the 14th of April.

NC - if we are granted our amendment, the R will be given 28 days, that's leaving it too late, in the circumstances can we deal with this in writing,

Second respondent aka Upton

My Sense of Fair Play suggests that they should only take note of anything regarding this specific case. It seems like overreach otherwise.
Even if it's DrU, that's having principles, innit?

Thank you all

Bet he's proper shitting himself now. (to quote my teenagers)

Dr U, who will probably volunteer for extra shifts in the MRI dept where his phone will have a mishap...

I'd rather not 😳🤐😱

I googled Isla Bumba yesterday and she featured as a bright young thing in an article on an NHS site, saying how happy she was with her job etc. She described her work as including things like giving advice about the right pronouns to use for patients in a waiting room, and arranging translations. When I searched just now with the aim of linking it here, the article was nowhere to be found. Whoever has hidden her LinkedIn profile, it must have been someone in the NHS who deleted this story. I feel very sorry for her, but my guess is that when asked about Dr Beth she didn't think twice about saying "Oh, no, she's entitled to be treated exactly like any other woman, no question. Can I interest you in our translation services?" It's appalling that she's being put up to defend a dodgy legal decision on behalf of the hospital trust in front of a judge (and the eyes of the world, apparently).

Also been lurking obsessively since last week - thanks to everyone.

I don't want to 😶

For info again here is Foran's article on the legal requirements for SS spaces at work.
https://thecritic.co.uk/the-truth-about-work-single-sex-spaces-and-the-law/

@murasaki
Thank you (not) for that thought.
(Remembering the Mermaids guy)

J - its difficult if we have questions but let's go ahead with in person.

NC - we need some time, 7 days please for reasoning

J - do you need to expand your reasons JR

JR - yes

J - each side has 7 days to expand and complete their reasons, then 14 days to respond, that takes us