NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

He did he got in first so SP was unable to make a formal complaint or coral other nurses.

Reversing into a bin?

Another lurker coming out in support of Sandie and absolutely furious at the way she has been treated.

I'm an avid reader of the FWR threads and thought I had peaked months ago, but clearly I was only halfway up Ben Nevis as this utter travesty now means I am at the top of Everest!

I would like to thank those who regularly post on the FWR threads - I have used the information to open the eyes of friends and family as to what is happening. I was also encouraged by my DH reporting back after his visit to the pub last night where all of his friends (the biological male variety) are discussing this and are also incredulous at the situation.

I suspect that the usual TRA suspects aren't on these threads (or other previous ET threads) because it's too fast moving for the approved crib sheet to be produced of the specific phrases you'll see repeated ad infinitum across all social media platforms. Engaging in real time might mean they have to justify things and they can't.

And really the problem was
the junior member calling SP a bad name - this is their rather tragic defence and is not proved in any way — only her claim to justify swearing and avoid repercussions.

JR personalised that re NC and witnesses, NC has more class and merely mentioned the missing documents, didn't attribute blame. There's only one grown up amongst the KCs in the room.

2 days of evidence.

J - now discussing dates, agreeing 11 days.

J - at the moment I have one application, to vary Judge Tinnion's order of 3 Jan, do I have any other applications

NC - we applied to add Kate Searle,

JR - I haven't seen it

J - will need to take instruction

Well today has well and truly shown us what was going on at NHS Fife's end. Absolutely nothing, other than pandering to DU to the detriment of SP. All tiptoeing around him, hoping no one else complained before they could be rid of him.

Who's going to represent KS???

Is there much Airbnb accommodation available in Dundee in July?

@Cookiepuss I too have found this case is being discussed by lots of people who were never interested in SS spaces for women before!

J - will need to take instruction

What a useful phrase! I think I'll nick it😄

And can you believe NC isn't a silk?

I’m trying to work out what the official reason(s) might be.

It’s difficult for people with family responsibilities to keep moving around, but that’s what they have to do.

From what I have seen in court, my (very possibly mistaken) view is that DU doesn’t think DU is fragile, just asserting DU’s rights.

Whatever the reason is, it must be more significant than that of most doctors.

Will it still be in Dundee in July, or back in Edinburgh, I wonder?

D - AG sent them, I read through them, I had thought they are fairly accurate
J - Q5, spoke to IB, looked at policy, discussed with consultant colleague - who -
ED - Kate Searle
J - had anyone else come to me, I would have had to do something,
J - why if another person had come forward would you need to do something
ED - I was thinking that many people might have come forward and been uncomfortable we would need to look for another solution

Interesting exchange - so if one person is uncomfortable that's OK, but if it's more than one they she'd have to "do something"?

That doesn't seem to be a coherent legal position.

Especially considering what SP is "uncomfortable" about.

NC - Also, applied to vary Judge Tinnions order to make it more specific, and we have applied for a forensic examination of 2R's phone.

J - would be good if we could do this via video, I better go get my diary, (checking his diary) 24-26 March is available

<back and forth>

"applied for a forensic examination of 2R's phone"

GET IN

I can share with you 😁

Wow

"applied for a forensic examination of 2R's phone"

😬

QUICK! STOP HIM FROM BOARDING ANY NORTH SEA FERRIES!!!!!

we have applied for a forensic examination of 2R's phone

Is this normal?

They want to forensically examine DU's phone.

It'll probably fall in the North Sea very shortly!