NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

The solution they wanted was for Sandie to apologise. And self flagelate.

Which was never going to happen.

Australian public info + Edinburgh Uni SU I think?
I suggest it is not accepted in general in the UK, it is an extreme position that SP shouldn't be held to. Just my opinion.

I think ED said that women who didn't want to use the communal space often used the alternative cupboard, it was an established changing space. Something about CR being in the basement?

Edit: sorry, I see you mention patient, I thought we were talking about nurses.

Motion in support of poor, oppressed Beth?

Women are the resource, remember that. Their presence is crucial for the validation

OMG this is classic. An older woman with strong opinions and seniority in her job. "Stern" translates doesn't smile, simper and expects professionalism. This is why women don't make it to the top or give up/off ramp - if they are not considered warm they are frozen out themselves. Well usually that's what happens in my experience - but in this case everyone believed DU that stern and opinions somehow pre-disposed her to a "hate incident". wow - I wouldn't blame her if she didn't want to work with people who were prepared to believe that - DU poured poison in the well - it's a serious detriment to her

So now ED is saying the 'investigation' hadn't started because OH hadn't yet seen Sandie and confirmed her as fit to take part. FFS

https://workforce.nhs.scot/media/ytbjqetj/conduct-policy-guide-to-suspension-1-2-last-updated-september-2022.pdf

NHS Scotland guide to workforce suspension

Also "solution" to interaction is extremely straightforward just move Dr. Upton instead!

AG was taking over IX,

So it definitely was ED's investigation then, you can only take over, if it belongs to someone else.

Awesome post, thank you Datun xx

Personally I do macroaggression. I'm not only leaving, I'm shouting 'THERE'S A MAN IN THERE' as I do it.

JR - what else did you do

ED - I was not able to progress the investigation

JR - now looking at the IX checklist, describe to tribunal what actions you took

ED - SP was offered to have union rep, she declined,

JR - what meeting

ED - 3 Jan. She was told she being suspended

NMC appears to be captured.

ED - SP was offered to have union rep, she declined,

I wonder why?

the reasons for the suspension, she was given a name of someone to contact who was a neutral person, told she would have to be available for the IX, that's basically it

JR - suspension review meeting 7 March, email to SP copied to you, about that meeting

Does this admit that ED was investigating despite being a witness and also personally involved in the original decision to suspend SP?

hardly impartial

Possibly thought she didn't need one!

So, I hope NC turns this on its head. If leaving the CR when Upton's there is considered 'avoidance' and wrong, what must Sandie be forced to do to NOT do that?

Is she to be forced to STAY and get UNDRESSED? What will the employer force Sandie to do to not be labelled as 'avoiding' Upton and no longer be suspended?

Is it not ok for HCPs to leave a room if they feel threatened? Because this seems to be what ED's saying. She seems to be saying avoiding Upton was wrong so the flip of that is the employer wants to FORCE Sandie to STAY.

Which is making me feel sick, honestly. The employer is forcing male abuse on Sandie. Thank fuck for Sex Matters and NC and those who are standing up against the NHS abusing women

Who else is going to complain about men in the CR after what happened to Sandie?

That says suspension should only be more than 4 weeks in exceptional circumstances - wonder how they'd justify that?

I’m in Sandie’s gang then… I want this on a tshirt for me.

Burn us all 😂

I'm still getting my head around people sending faxes in 2024!!!!

Sandie didn't stand a chance, did she

JR - and the suspension risk assessment, who completed that assessment

ED - (reading no answer)

JR - do you think it was you

ED - I don't know

JR - 2 notes, who wrote these, take a moment to read those,

ED - I think it may have been Charlotte,

"I reversed into a bin!" :)