NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

NHS loves a fax machine!

this kind of situation is where some women fawning over TW all the time has got us. Whether the fawning is just “be kind” or fear and self preservation so they don’t put themselves in the line of fire I’m not sure

Yes he said so, didn't he. Apologise, respect me, blah blah blah

IME, utterly captured by management even before trans ideology came along. Maybe a few local reps were honourable exceptions.

DU and the patriarchy have done a proper number on this witness.

I was the designated lead for the IX

Interesting that you can be lead for an investigation that is not happening* *

JR - other note of meeting by Stuart Fraser, RCN officer who accompanied SP (reading) who attended that meeting

ED - myself, SP, SF, Lottie,

JR - what was the topic of that meeting

ED - the suspension was now two months, we were looking at ways to bring SP back to work to

I'm not suprised Sandie didn't want a union rep as they couldn't be trusted not to view her as the problem.

She's just a cog in the machine.

So they've now pushed the date back to 7th? March and they still don't seem to have any understanding of what they think DU is saying happened. It is all still a bit vague. And Sandy hasn't been asked anything. FFS

support her at work, how to do that

JR - what was discussed

ED - HR suggested that SP could go work in a different area, but SP wanted to return to her area of work

JR - what area of work

ED - quite often when IX going on we might move someone from a med ward to an ortho ward

Yes, and amazing that it's NHS Fife's own barrister that's bringing this up - she seems to be doing a pretty good job of highlighting their failings so far!

Maybe she's got a plan . . .

Am I right in thinking that it was Upton who wasn't satisfied with the offer of changing shifts so that they wouldn't bump into each other? I deffo remember him saying that SP would have to apologise to him personally.

Which I took as meaning to his face.

Which is a deeply and unpleasant and nasty thing to do. And, I would like to add, a coercive control thing - forcing someone who hasn't done anything wrong to apologise/admit wrongdoing.

I'm raging about ''incidents of avoidance". There's absolutely no attempt to understand Sandie's point of view, the man and his hurty feels must be centred at all times. They're all f**king handmaidens.

JR - just a diff department, who suggested that

ED - I think that was me

JR - what was SPs response to different dept suggestion

ED - SP did not want that, she wanted to work in the same dept

JR - how did SP respond to different shift suggestion

Yes and note what ED said earlier about 'sexual orientation'. Several 'be kind' women I've spoken with seem to think refusing to pretend a man is a woman is the same as being mean to gay men.

Actually, just before ED mentioned Trump, JR was pulled up for a leading question because she tried to ask ED about SP's gender critical beliefs. Maybe JR was trying not to have ED mention Trump, and ED was determined to do so!

I have to go out now, hopefully back in time for NC's cross-examination!

I keep going back to the basic fact that DrU started using the women's CR without asking anyone, without a GRC or anything, established himself in there, 'squatters' rights', etc etc. - so anyone who objected would be the fly in the ointment, not him😡

It's possible she's going to favour R1 over R2 and throw ED under the bus.

Her crapness at investigating, the delays (plus the fact she had a conflict of interest) can be argued not to be fair to DU as well as SP, even though she's clearly on DU's side.

JR - how did SP respond to different shift suggestion

Let me guess..she got " tense"and angry.

But ED is (there for) R1...

ED - we thought that moving to a day shift, there would be senior staff around, it would give SP support

JR - why senior support appropriate

ED - we thought SP needed support back into the workplace she'd been off for several months, and we had senior staff to support her

It is, totally. Dr Sally Pezaro is a midwife on the NMC council or disciplinary committee. She posts a lot on tiktok. Tells us (Veeerry patronisingly) science has moved on, two sexes is so last century elementary school biology etc.

A terrible person to find yourself up against.

www.tiktok.com/@sallypezaro/video/7319775660308696352

I'm waiting for the discussion over the legality of the policy to allow TW into female CR and the possible mention of Stonewall advice.

So they were completely paralysed because they wouldn't use the exceptions? So in order to paint Sandie as a baddie, more complaints had to be found