NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

So ED is writing to Upton saying there's been an incident, and acknowleding he's upset, but when speaking to SP she seems much colder. Even though she is SP's line manager

Only 4 weeks because that is what the Suspension Guidance states.

"Incidents of avoidance" ie SP leaving the CR when DU is there = where a woman removes herself from an uncomfortable and illegal and abusive situation. What a disconnected way to describe it. My blood is boiling.

= re-education.

She needed treatment for her wrongthink

'incidents of avoidance'

FFS you can leave a changing room at any time and for any reason, it's a changing room.

gross

And SP is left hanging because Upton is tardy giving ED his statement

JR - now occ health form, filled in by MSF,

NC - corrects JR, EDs signature

ED - we fill in the form and it gets sent electronically

JR - email to AS, you feel there is a need to increase suspension for further 4 weeks, why

ED - because nothing had changed, we hadn't started

And ED is all softy softy approach to Upton but lets SP walk into a meeting knowing she will be told she is being suspended without letting her have time to get a union rep

Stern = Resting Bitch Face

Suffered all my life. Poor me.

JR - email to AS, you feel there is a need to increase suspension for further 4 weeks, why ED - because nothing had changed, we hadn't started

the IX, we hadn't found a solution to interaction with SP and DU. AS was the designated contact person, she should keep in touch with SP.

JR - why hadn't the IX it started

ED - we were waiting for an okay from Occ Health that SP was fit to participate in IX, and AG was taking

I don't know which union SP was in, if any, but many of them are utterly captured and wouldn't have been any help. FWIW.

This Hate Incident is very sinister. If a woman chooses to remove herself from a situation she clearly doesn't feel safe in she gets labelled as a hateful bigot and risks her career. The only alternative is to distress the woman in a cruel torturous way.

Pretty sure there have been other mentions (not this particular case) that women avoiding loos/changing rooms when trans person is there is a "micro-aggression" or something. Eg on e-learning/training etc

Are there not rules around how long you can take over these disciplinary procedures? Surely it can't be seen as reasonable just to keep dragging it out because they can't get their arses in gear to progress it??

Yes, goes with her questioning of Sandie's husband and daughter "ok she was distressed, upset and shaking - but you didn't say she was SCARED did you?"

We hadn't found a solution to interaction with SP and DU.

Backtracking to HR comment she uses broom cupboard etc presumably no lockers or loos. So for a woman sending starting her period they don't have the needed facilities. And they aren't going to be single sex either - man could quite legitimately try to enter!

It's painful watching this play out.

You will never find a solution.

The Unison Women's conference is on in Edinburgh today. You can probably guess what's on the agenda.

over IX,

JR - 14 Feb, what is this

ED - at the time, as nurses we do this a lot, we make a little statement to yourself, often we have to give evidence to police, so we do this 'statement to ourselves' (presumed from SP)

JR - she sent this to you by fax,

ED - yes

Edinburgh university micro aggressions resources. If you walk into a bathroom and a man is there, leaving is a micro aggression, and not allowed. See also: talking about your periods; mentioning that you were a tom boy etc.

Only for women - if a man is "stern" it is classed as businesslike!

Saw this in my workplace in the 1980s where being "stern" was noted as a negative on our 28 year old female admin assistant's annual report. She was told by the manager that she needed to be more "motherly" and "look after" the male graduate trainees.